Erikstormtrooper said:
The blaster bit at the end had me doing a double take. Hilarious!
The majority of the changes seem to be color related, and some of the 2.0 color changes contradict the GOUT. What's your source for these changes?
He's basing the coloring of some parts off of another source that he believed better represented the coloring than the GOUT.
I haven't watched the new clip, but if the colors are warmer, I'll take a stab in the dark and say it is the Japanese Special Collection Laserdiscs he's using for reference. He was asking around for a copy of that earlier, and a thread about that had comparison shots that looked quite a bit warmer than GOUT, 97SE and 04SE.
yoda-sama said:
I haven't watched the new clip, but if the colors are warmer, I'll take a stab in the dark and say it is the Japanese Special Collection Laserdiscs he's using for reference. He was asking around for a copy of that earlier, and a thread about that had comparison shots that looked quite a bit warmer than GOUT, 97SE and 04SE.
Curious what his source is as well. He clearly has an intended vision for how he wants the color to look.
I might hesitate to say it was the japanese edition, because he was only asking for that a couple of days ago. Though he could have made changes based on them very very quickly? (I don't know how fast he works).
He asked for the exact segment from JSC that he just showed. So I assumed he wanted it for a final comparison (or to put in a comp video).
[/speculation]
http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Harmys-THE-EMPIRE-STRIKES-BACK-Despecialized-Edition-HD-DVD9-AVCHD-and-SD-NTSC-DVD5-AVAILABLE-NOW-Read-1st-post/post/703167/#TopicPost703167
This and Puggo's version confirm this very clearly, because PSB is very orange in this sequence, while the whole transfer is actually biased towards the opposite side of the spectrum, so the orange here must have been pretty strong.
I wanted the JSC footage to see if I could replace some of the DNR-heavy elements of the GOUT with it, but unfortunately, it has too much analog noise and too little detail to be of any use. But it confirms this color palette as well.
I like the colors! Glad you're considering all the sources. And you're right, Harmy, the GOUT elements remain the weakest link in this project. The Cloud Car that flies past Leia's window is nearly transparent, and the moire on the pre-dinner walk-by windows is really distracting. It appears that you've also done a better job stabilizing the GOUT footage than on previous efforts, but it's still a bit jittery and noticeable in scenes where it's next to the rock-solid blu-ray. Have you thought about stabilizing the GOUT automatically first, so you don't have to do so much by hand?
Otherwise, looking great as usual!
-G
Well, of course I thought about stabilizing the GOUT automatically but you can't really do that if the camera is moving. And yes, the moire is pretty bad and you can't remove completely it without loosing too much detail and sharpness - plus there's all this ugly color fluctuation in those high contrast areas, which makes it really hard to match it to the BD footage and on top of all that you get the DVNR smearing, so I really am not too happy with those shots - but they do look a lot better than in v1.0, which is quite something, considering that exactly the same sources were used.
As to the cloud car though, that is from a 35mm scan (which I though was pretty obvious in that comparison) and looks exactly like it's supposed to - it was always a bit transparent.
g-force said:
I like the colors! Glad you're considering all the sources. And you're right, Harmy, the GOUT elements remain the weakest link in this project. The Cloud Car that flies past Leia's window is nearly transparent, and the moire on the pre-dinner walk-by windows is really distracting. It appears that you've also done a better job stabilizing the GOUT footage than on previous efforts, but it's still a bit jittery and noticeable in scenes where it's next to the rock-solid blu-ray. Have you thought about stabilizing the GOUT automatically first, so you don't have to do so much by hand?
Otherwise, looking great as usual!
-G
Good eye. There's so much to look at in that shot, I didn't notice. But the car *is* transparent (or, translucent). As for the moire, do you mean the screen on the top portions of the windows? It's difficult to say from the small window (and less noticeable in SD), but how bad is it in the gout?
The GOUT footage is a little noticeable when you strain to see it, particularly in freeze frames. But that's better than something that looks great in a frame but falls apart in motion!
I find myself staring at the borders of unzoomed shots, looking for the spliced in GOUT borders, and it always looks so seamless. Given that the starting materials had very different colorization, how is this done? Is recolorization of bluray material done after the merge with the GOUT borders or are the colorized at the same time?
Harmy said:
As to the cloud car though, that is from a 35mm scan (which I though was pretty obvious in that comparison) and looks exactly like it's supposed to - it was always a bit transparent.
Makes sense why I was surprised at how much more detailed the cloud car looked than previously. Nice!
Harmy said:
Well, of course I thought about stabilizing the GOUT automatically but you can't really do that if the camera is moving.
True, it probably would only work for when the camera wasn't moving.
Harmy said:
but they do look a lot better than in v1.0, which is quite something, considering that exactly the same sources were used.
Agreed!
-G
Harmy said:
This and Puggo's version confirm this very clearly, because PSB is very orange in this sequence, while the whole transfer is actually biased towards the opposite side of the spectrum, so the orange here must have been pretty strong.
The reinserted backgrounds look perfect, it's an astonishing achievement! Would it be possible to make the snow speeders in their first scene any less jittery too by using the same method? I'm also fine with the very orange sequence but how about a small compromise (like the brightness level in the Jundland Wastes in SW)? How can it be possible that the GOUT material looks completely neutral if the basic source had been that orange? Doesn't the extreme tone destroy some of the colour information?
My assumption is, that the tint was introduced to the original release in the grading process and isn't on the negative and then the GOUT was scanned from an IP, which was made later and to which, the same grading choices weren't applied in this scene.
And what do you mean about the speeders?
Harmy said:
My assumption is, that the tint was introduced to the original release in the grading process and isn't on the negative and then the GOUT was scanned from an IP, which was made later and to which, the same grading choices weren't applied in this scene.
Yes, this makes a lot of sense.
Harmy said:
And what do you mean about the speeders?
They look a little bit jittery too. Maybe I'm just used to the SE version.
Yeah, I don't know, they don't look jittery at all to me.
Harmy said:
Yeah, I don't know, they don't look jittery at all to me.
I guess it's just the lower resolution and the noisy/grainy source but that's ok.
Enjoyed the blaster gag too, always nice to have an Easter egg in these previews. Regarding the colors, I actually really like the new Bespin colors, but I wonder what the new color reference means for our perennial argument about Hoth colors... if I recall, your last Hoth samples were using the color-boosted GOUT reference.
Not quite - I didn't really stick to the GOUT super closely or anything - there are so many different sources and none of them definitive, that to me it seems best to just look at a few to get a general idea of what the sequences should look like and then do something that has the same feel to it.
CatBus said:
Enjoyed the blaster gag too, always nice to have an Easter egg in these previews. Regarding the colors, I actually really like the new Bespin colors, but I wonder what the new color reference means for our perennial argument about Hoth colors... if I recall, your last Hoth samples were using the color-boosted GOUT reference.
As for Hoth colours, having seen a few ESB 35mm prints now, the snow colour ranges from bluish to white, to mildly purp;e depending on the scene. There is no real consistency to the colour grade on the snow sequences, the colour is all over the place on the original prints.
Donations welcome: paypal.me/poit
bitcoin:13QDjXjt7w7BFiQc4Q7wpRGPtYKYchnm8x
Help get The Original Trilogy preserved!
Poita, would you please take a look at my 1st hour workprint and tell me if the feel of the colors seems close to the prints you've seen? I'll PM you the link :-)
Oh yeah, and the blown out detail out the window when discussing the Mining Guild, it looks pretty severe compared to the GOUT, but I know the GOUT levels are pretty wrong, so I'm not sure what correct should be.
Oh yeah, I tried pulling the detail for that out of the separate color channels but it was blown out in all of them.
Harmy said:
Poita, would you please take a look at my 1st hour workprint and tell me if the feel of the colors seems close to the prints you've seen? I'll PM you the link :-)
No problem.
Donations welcome: paypal.me/poit
bitcoin:13QDjXjt7w7BFiQc4Q7wpRGPtYKYchnm8x
Help get The Original Trilogy preserved!
Hey Harmy, I'm having trouble with my connection and 710 is much too heavy. Could you at least break it down into smaller files?
OK, guys, here's a workprint of another half hour of the movie (the 3rd half hour, from which the last clip came). I'll be glad of any feedback:
http://uloz.to/xNhfB38m/esb-wp-part-3-mkv
The password to download is harmy.
Does the Mynock shoot first? You have to see it to find out!
Thanks Harmy! Will look at it this weekend.
Is the first hour workprint still available online, with sound? The original link seems to have died. Or is it a bit too outdated now?
I'm pretty sure the link still works.