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Info Wanted: HD Broadcast Question...

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Hi there.

i’ve just been reading through the treads, I’m very interested in preserving films for historical reasons as well as different versions for comparison.

However there is one question as have after reading these threads. Often the HD broadcast of a film will be different from the bluray, having different colours, grain etc. Why is this?

i can understand why this is the case with SD material, that built up over years and as new telecine technology became available or new tape formats, various new copies would be made. As I understand it, TV stations would buy the broadcast tapes and keep them. So one channel would have bought Star Trek tapes on BetaSP tapes in the 80s and have no reason to replace them. While a channel that started airing it in the nineties would have bought Digibeta tapes.

Either way, these tapes and versions built up over decades.

However, aren’t all the HD copies fairly new? I’m not sure about the exact times, but wouldn’t the HD scans have been made ten years ago at most? So why are there so many versions?

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Good example is the '78 Halloween... last Halloween AMC broadcast one master on the SD channel feed and a completely different master on the HD feed.  A few of us even did comparisons to see which discs matched what they were broadcasting.  On the standard definition channel, AMC was showing the 1999 Limited Edition DVD in pan and scan... you could tell because of how blue the night was as well as the amber/orange of autumn.  On the HD AMC channel, they were showing the 2007 Blu-ray (first BD release) obviously in anamorphic widescreen and it was clear as day because that release has an unmistakable lack of the blue night but ultra clarity and vibrancy.  The daytime scenes also match the somewhat warmer look of earlier releases.  Everyone who checked it out agreed on what sources they were using.  So even the same network can use two different masters to broadcast the same movie at the same time but on two different feeds... one SD and one HD.

Also, I have noticed that EPIX channel uses the Star Trek Blu-rays when they broadcast films 1-6.  They match the BD exactly.  But when Cinemax broadcasts films like Conan The Barbarian, Jaws, Star Trek II, etc... they use the earlier HD master from their own library which does not match any Blu-ray.  The color timing is the dead giveaway.  Totally different.  HDNet Movies does the same thing because they've had those HD masters for years.  So bottom line, some networks or premium channels have HD masters that were struck long before they made it to Blu-ray.  And sometimes they stick with those.  Others may decide to switch over to the new Blu-ray which has been the case with all of the James Bond films.  Now the only exception I noticed was that Universal HD did broadcast On Her Majesty's Secret Service a while back and they clearly did not use the Blu-ray because the contrast was not blown out like it is on the BD.  The source they used clearly was closer to the Ultimate Edition Lowry restored version from a few years earlier.  It was cropped, but the contrast was correct and the colors slighty altered from the old Special Editon DVD which had the original colors.  It looked great, but clearly was not the new Blu-ray.

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The reason varies. There are many HDTV transfers were created long before there was a blu-ray release.  In some cases, the HD transfers were created when the DVD release was being remastered so that they would be ready for HDTV or HD video when it was available.  During the time that HD-DVD and Blu-Ray were duking it out, a few companies created initial transfers and waited to see what format would win out.  There were also HDTV transfers that were created straight off the film or negative without as much processing because they were created for HDTV and there was no video release confirmed for the immediate future.  With TV broadcast, a lot of presentation standards are lower than those of a video release so DNR, EE, color and contrast adjustment, etc... are not used as heavily.  When a film is released on video, these "enhancements" are generally made to try and make the film look more like modern releases so it is more attractive to casual viewers.

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I'll tell you one thing... Cinemax is using the Ultimate Hunter Edition of Predator for their HD broadcast and every horrid comment I've read regarding that transfer is absolutely spot on.  I cannot believe how waxy and artificial it looks compared to the film I once knew as Predator.  I mean it looks like a cartoon now.

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Ah excellent, thanks so much for this. 

So most TV transfers were created earlier, before blu ray and usually were straight scans, with few or no deliberate changes.

Would I be right in assuming that when it comes to both modern films and less prestigious films, the blu and the TV version would usually share the same master?

I mean, the last Harry Potter film was released onto blu ray shortly after it finished in the cinema. There the TV and Blu would share a common transfer. However the first Harry Potter film, released when VHS was still around, may have had a HDTV transfer, then when it came to Blu years later, a new version may have been created?

And less prestigious titles. For something big like Ghostbusters, I imagine there might be a few transfers. But for more obscure films like Grosse Pointe Blank, Wings of a Dove or Bound (great films, but not massively popular or lucrative) they probably only scanned them once and would have no reason to pay for another.

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I've got an HDNet Movie broadcast of High Fidelity that looks sensational.  That's my go to because the Blu-ray was DNR'd way too much.  Grosse Pointe Blank probably suffered the same fate but the new Ghostbusters remaster is excellent on BD.  Side note, Night of the Comet looks exactly the same on MGM HD, HDNet Movies and the new Shout Factory Blu-ray.

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Prior to their bankruptcy, MGM struck a ton of HD masters of catalog titles for TV/on-demand purposes. They were showing up on MGM HD in the States, and the various MGM Channels overseas, 2-3 years before they ever got a physical release. (For example, the HD remaster of the Lifeforce director's cut premiered on MGM HD in 2010, but the Shout BD only came out last year.)

Many of these films are still unreleased on BD, but the ones that have gotten releases seem, by and large, to be derived from the HD masters that MGM already has on hand. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

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You are correct, sir.  MGM HD has scores of rare HD masters including Convoy, Shout at the Devil, Blame it on Rio, Shag, Modern Girls, Breathless (1983), Secret Admirer, Class, Roller Boogie, The Flamingo Kid, Untamed Heart (European cut with Marisa Tomei's tits on full tilt boogie), Foxes, Electric Dreams, Black Sabbath (AIP version with Boris Karloff's real voice) and many, many, many, many more.  MGM HD Rocks.  And yes, they use the MGM HD masters when they finally hit Blu-ray.  It takes a long time though like Lifeforce did but it was worth it.  Mathilda May.  Good Lord.  And I just watched The Flamingo Kid which I have dvr'd and I must say Janet Jones was also incredible in her day.  That is all.