adywan said:
kk650 said:
brash_stryker said:
People only see a difference with crampedness when comparing cropped with uncropped. This notion that ESB has ALWAYS looked like the camera is shooting from outside the ship, baffles me. As far as I'm aware, you don't see anything in frame that indicates there ought to be the window "spokes" in frame too, therefore our view is certainly inside the glass (or transparisteel).
The only way that might not work for you is if you fixate on a bulky videocamera not fitting inside the window, and in that case, YOU'RE the one breaking the fourth wall by even thinking about equipment and film crew being present, rather than just getting caught up in the fantasy. In fiction, we are disembodied spectators.
The edge of the window frame on the top left corner of the uncropped ESB frame does draw attention to itself IMHO, it implies a window that the camera is shooting through, hence subconsiously reminding the viewer that its a set and they're watching a film. I don't get that feeling when looking at the cockpit frame from Star Wars.
Nobody ever tries to break their own fourth wall, not unless they're specifically focusing on the edges of frames and looking for mistakes the filmmakers made, but if you leave an uncropped shot like the one from ESB that looks like a set, subconciously people are picking up on that. Will it be enough to break the illusion? Probably not, but I believe it will lessen their appreciation of that film, even if they themselves don't realise it. Is that a worthwhile sacrifice to make for a little more information on the sides and slightly more detail? Everybody will have their own opinion on that but for me, maintaining the illusion is the most important thing of all, extra information on the sides be damned. GL seems to agree with me on that.
What? Are you thinking that the window frame we see on the edge of the frame is an outer frame from the front? That is the INSIDE frame we are seeing, not a frame from the outside. This is the frame section we are seeing in both shots and NOT one of the forward frames:
You seem to be seeing things that are not there. I've proved that the camera position and the framing is EXACTLY the same in both the uncropped ESB shot and the ANH shot, yet you still claim it looks like it is being filmed from outside the window in ESB, but not in ANH?kk650 said:
I'm afraid i'm going to have to agree to disagree about the curved frame of the window being more visible in the ANH shot, to my eyes it is clearly more visible on the uncropped ESB shot, hence why I believe the cropped framing is better. The breaking the fourth wall argument is in MY OPINION very much valid and you thinking that it is invalid is YOUR OPINION, not absolute fact like you seem to believe from your statement.
Your work on Star Wars Revisited was well done but you might want to reign in the ego a touch and show a little more respect for the opinions of others, your opinion is worth no more than anybody elses.
So, even though it proves that the framing is the same, my refusal to go with YOUR opinion means i have an ego and should show more respect? It seems to be more the other way around about the ego. YOU can't accept the fact that you are wrong about the frame. It IS your opinion that it breaks the fourth wall compared to ANH. But it is FACT that they are both exactly the same so the fourth wall cannot be being broken. If more of the windows were being shown in ESB, then i could possibly agree with you. But there is NO difference apart from the scale of the cockpit.
You are entitled to your opinion and all i was doing was pointing out that what you were saying about the framing/ window frame, camera position etc was in fact incorrect. That does NOT mean that i have an ego problem.kk650 said:
I see where a lot of you are coming from, seeing all that extra information on the sides and detail is very cool but in the context of maintaining the film's visual narrative and visual consistency between the size of the Star Wars cockpit and the Empire Strikes Back cockpit, I think GL did the right thing by cropping the ESB cockpit frames to make the cockpit feel cramped like it was in Star Wars.Well Han did modify the falcon between ANH & ESB ( Adding the extra landing gears etc) so it's feasible to think he would have made modifications to the cockpit to make it less cramped ;)
I'm not referring to that frame but the very first one you put in the screencap comparison, where you see all the characters front on and the edge of the window is on the top left corner of the frame, as i'm sure you know. Setting up straw men by connecting my breaking the wall argument to the incorrect frame doesn't really help your argument all that much. You think that that the frame i'm actually refering to doesn't look like a set, I do, GL agrees with me, hence the cropping, we agree to disagree, there's not much left to be said.
When you start using grand statements like 'the fourth wall argument is invalid' then you clearly believe your opinion is fact and irreputable for some reason. Only someone with a very large ego acts like that. And again in your reply you again prove my point when you say you are 'pointing out that what you were saying about the framing/ window frame, camera position etc was in fact incorrect.' when that is again simply your opinion with no facts to back it. You clearly have a very big ego to be making statements like that all the time. I'm surprised your head doesn't explode its gotten so large.
I'll leave you to make your grandiose statements of fact and rule your own little fiefdom in peace. I've got my own releases to get back to.