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All Things Star Trek — Page 35

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CP3S said:

I am pretty sure The Inner Light is my all time favorite TNG episode. I find the whole concept really interesting. 

I totally ripped it off in a short story I wrote many years back, where a man gets in a fight with his wife, goes out for a walk to cool off, stumbles into a large hole at a nearby construction site, wakes up, and the next thing he knows he is being chased down by an army of ogres, scooped up, thrown into a cage with a bunch of other humans, and sold off as a slave. For the first few years in this fantasy-esque world he is bent on getting home, but eventually becomes invested in his new life, writes off his old life as some weird vivid dream or fantasy, joins in a slave uprising, raises a family, lives to a ripe old age, and one morning wakes up in a deep hole at a construction site, just as discombobulated as the first time around, suddenly finding himself back in a strange existence he hardly even remembers and desperately wishing he could get back.  

 This sounds really cool, CP3S! Do you have it online somewhere to share? I'd be interested in reading it!

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Tobar said:

As for best Trek game, even though I haven't finished it, would have to be Star Trek 25th Anniversary. It was a point and click adventure game set in the TOS period (I like to think it's year 4) and was fully voiced by the entire original cast. It's great, you get to actually fly Enterprise and go anywhere you want in the galaxy.

Runner up would be the Star Trek screensaver set by After Dark. Oh the hours I frittered away playing with those. My favorite two were watching the Horta burrow tunnels all over the screen and occasionally kill a red shirt and then having Spock wander around my desktop. The bridge one was awesome too.

Absolutely. When my family got our first Windows computer (1993 IIRC), "25th Anniversary" and that After Dark screen saver were all I'd ever do on it. That and "Where In the World is Carmen San Diego," haha. The sequel game "Judgement Rights" was just as cool. Having the entire cast of TOS reprise their roles was worth the price of admission.

If TAS is the fourth year of the five-year-mission, "25 Anniversary" and "Judgement Rights"is the fifth! Or maybe it should be the other way around considering all the changes in TAS (Arex, M'Ress, two turbolifts on the bridge, etc.).

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Commander Courage said:

CP3S said:

I am pretty sure The Inner Light is my all time favorite TNG episode. I find the whole concept really interesting. 

I totally ripped it off in a short story I wrote many years back, where a man gets in a fight with his wife, goes out for a walk to cool off, stumbles into a large hole at a nearby construction site, wakes up, and the next thing he knows he is being chased down by an army of ogres, scooped up, thrown into a cage with a bunch of other humans, and sold off as a slave. For the first few years in this fantasy-esque world he is bent on getting home, but eventually becomes invested in his new life, writes off his old life as some weird vivid dream or fantasy, joins in a slave uprising, raises a family, lives to a ripe old age, and one morning wakes up in a deep hole at a construction site, just as discombobulated as the first time around, suddenly finding himself back in a strange existence he hardly even remembers and desperately wishing he could get back.  

 This sounds really cool, CP3S! Do you have it online somewhere to share? I'd be interested in reading it!

 CP3S doesn't post here anymore...he hasn't been online for a while now.

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Frink's head may explode after seeing that. ;)

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Where were you in '77?

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What is a man but that lofty spirit, that sense of enterprise, that devotion to something that cannot be sensed, cannot be realized but only dreamed! The highest reality. - J.T. Kirk

“First feel fear, then get angry. Then go with your life into the fight.” - Bill Mollison

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The nonsense biology I can buy--it's the 24th century, and based on a remark made in TNG 02x20, it seems that someone has developed a gene splicing doohickey for interspecies couples, and it's existence is apparently well-known and often used, given the existence of B'Elanna, K'Ehleyr, Spock, and Troi--but the idea that it would result in some sort of split personality is dumb. Their personality should be informed by biology, but dominated by their cultural upbringing (like how Worf has a Klingon temper, but has a considerably more human-like personality than other Klingons and a strong understanding of human social cues.)

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Sadako said:

The nonsense biology I can buy--it's the 24th century, and based on a remark made in TNG 02x20, it seems that someone has developed a gene splicing doohickey for interspecies couples, and it's existence is apparently well-known and often used, given the existence of B'Elanna, K'Ehleyr, Spock, and Troi

That doesn't explain interspecies offspring in situations where such technology simply wasn't available (Worf's human brother having a child with some rubber forehead chick on a primitive planet, for example).

I simply don't know why the writers didn't simply make most of the human and rubber forehead aliens genetic offshoots of humanity. Going by TOS, we already know aliens had transplanted humans to other worlds from Earth long before humans developed interstellar travel; it's well within the realm of possibility that some of these transplanted populations could have evolved/been modified into new species and subspecies over the centuries/millennia.

Jeez ... now I'm just serving to remind myself of why I dislike TNG so much. Why did the writers of the show have to bungle almost every aspect of the ST Universe in such a horrible, slipshod manner?

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I was told to take this here so I said this about DS9.

Yeah not to mention that just watching the characters interact was fun and very interesting.  The episode where Garak tortures Odo is a stand out if you ask me as is any episode with the Maquis,the fact that they were human and the issues were so complex that often Sisko was hunting them but you never really felt they were the bad guys always made those episodes a favorite of mine.

Oh and any scene where Dukat and Weyoun interacted was a ton of fun to watch.

I really like the episode where Dukat and Sisko crash on a planet and Dukat spends the whole episode trying to justify everything he has done and then just completely flips out at the end.

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DuracellEnergizer said:

Sadako said:

The nonsense biology I can buy--it's the 24th century, and based on a remark made in TNG 02x20, it seems that someone has developed a gene splicing doohickey for interspecies couples, and it's existence is apparently well-known and often used, given the existence of B'Elanna, K'Ehleyr, Spock, and Troi

That doesn't explain interspecies offspring in situations where such technology simply wasn't available (Worf's human brother having a child with some rubber forehead chick on a primitive planet, for example).

I simply don't know why the writers didn't simply make most of the human and rubber forehead aliens genetic offshoots of humanity. Going by TOS, we already know aliens had transplanted humans to other worlds from Earth long before humans developed interstellar travel; it's well within the realm of possibility that some of these transplanted populations could have evolved/been modified into new species and subspecies over the centuries/millennia.

Jeez ... now I'm just serving to remind myself of why I dislike TNG so much. Why did the writers of the show have to bungle almost every aspect of the ST Universe in such a horrible, slipshod manner?

 That sounds like how they explained every planet having humans or human like aliens on it in SG1.

As for TNG that show was fine and they did pretty much what you asked for. I can't remember every detail as it has been years since I have seen it but there was an episode where they discovered that most life in the galaxy was created by a single race and used the same basic DNA as it's building blocks. They did pretty much what you said they should do. Also I wouldn't be too hard on them remember the show started in the late 80s and had to stay on budget while using model shots and sets for pretty much everything. B5 and Farscape are from the 90s and could use CGI to generate ships and alien planets and thus were able to save money that they could spend on makeup. also neither of those shows went on location as much as TNG did. The only other show I can think of that went on location as much as TNG was SG1 and they had aliens that were completely human,they didn't even do foreheads,so I really think it was a budget thing and if you let TOS off of the hook for it's Asian looking Klingons i really think you should cut TNG some slack. They didn't have unlimited money either. Farscape also had Jim Henson's creator ship at their beck and call. I don't think anyone was being lazy and trying to make a bad show and I think the show they made holds up at least as well as TOS with it's loincloth wearing aliens,space hippies,and red shirts dying by the dozens.  It was a good show and I think it still stands up today.

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From our conversation in the "If you need to B*tch about something... this is the place" Thread

DuracellEnergizer said:

Let's see ... how did TNG fuck things up ...

In no particular order:

All the pseudoscientific technobabble. I don't remember TOS ever resorting to this crap to any significant degree.

I think they was some techobabble in TOS

The stupid "The Federation is a 110% perfect, atheist utopia that never does anything wrong and never uses money" crap.

It was kind of a utopia in TOS and in TNG, they Admirals and other Captians making mistakes.

Making it so that there is never any major conflict between the main characters of the show. Everyone just always gets along like one big, boring family from some '50s-'80s sitcom. 

They got along mostly in TOS.  Well ok, Spoke and Mccoy fought alot.

The overuse of human and rubber forehead aliens.

I thought the make jobs were pretty good, especially compared to TOS

Turning the Klingons into stupid, dirty, one-note brutes.

?

You must have been watching a different set of Klingons than I was watching.   The Klingons I was watching were turned from the dirth one-note brutes they had been in TOS to honor bound warriors in TNG.

Never allowing the interesting characters like Data to ever significantly grow and develop.

name me one character that developed in TOS?

Oh, and IMO, DS9 didn't fuck up Star Trek.

what about the war?

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Ryan McAvoy said:

Warbler said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

I want to bitch about how TNG fucked up the ST Universe, but I don't know if that should go here or in the Star Trek thread.

 in what way did TNG f*** up the ST Universe.   I do think you can argue that DS9 and Voyager and Enterprise did that, but TNG?

 Yes TNG was mostly awesome but it layed the seeds for Star Trek's downfall. Too much of the "We can't do that" and "not that fast, you might break something" attitudes

huh? please explain and get examples of this attitude in TNG? 

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Ryan McAvoy said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

The overuse of human and rubber forehead aliens.

 This says it all ^.

When the show got so complacent that it would introduce us to new Alien races week after week with ever so slightly different nose jobs, was when the problems started.

as I said before, the make up jobs were petty good compared to TOS.

Then when it got to DS9 they thought it was exceptable to have the main Alien race (The Bajorans) that the entire show revolved around, have four nose ridges and an earing?!

what was so wrong with?  I never had any problem with the makeup job the Bajorans had. 

When you had Babylon 5 airing at the same time who had wierd and freaky aliens (with peacock hair, ornate bones growing out of their heads, full reptillian facial appliances or no physical presence at all) then your franchise starts to look tired.

 never watched Babylon 5.   For alll I know, maybe the makeup jobs were better there.

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Warbler said:

From our conversation in the "If you need to B*tch about something... this is the place" Thread

DuracellEnergizer said:

Let's see ... how did TNG fuck things up ...

In no particular order:

All the pseudoscientific technobabble. I don't remember TOS ever resorting to this crap to any significant degree.

I think they was some techobabble in TOS

The stupid "The Federation is a 110% perfect, atheist utopia that never does anything wrong and never uses money" crap.

It was kind of a utopia in TOS and in TNG, they Admirals and other Captians making mistakes.

Making it so that there is never any major conflict between the main characters of the show. Everyone just always gets along like one big, boring family from some '50s-'80s sitcom. 

They got along mostly in TOS.  Well ok, Spoke and Mccoy fought alot.

The overuse of human and rubber forehead aliens.

I thought the make jobs were pretty good, especially compared to TOS

Turning the Klingons into stupid, dirty, one-note brutes.

?

You must have been watching a different set of Klingons than I was watching.   The Klingons I was watching were turned from the dirth one-note brutes they had been in TOS to honor bound warriors in TNG.

Never allowing the interesting characters like Data to ever significantly grow and develop.

name me one character that developed in TOS?

Oh, and IMO, DS9 didn't fuck up Star Trek.

what about the war?

 Yeah very well said.  TNG was at least as good a show as TOS,it built on the foundation and then grew in ways TOs didn't. Both shows were very good.

Also as much as I love DS9 I do get the feeling that the only reason the war happened was because B5 was having a big war on their show and the producers of Star Trek wanted to cash in on that.  That is not to say there were not a ton of good episodes in the war arc but i don't think Star Trek would have gone there if B5 had not given them the push.

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bkev said:

Jetrell Fo said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

Oh, and IMO, DS9 didn't fuck up Star Trek. If anything, it rectified some of the damage that TNG had done and restored some of the fun to the ST Universe that had been lacking in it since the TOS films had come to an end.

I agree with you 100% on this.  DS9 gave Star Trek it's teeth back.

 Also agreed.  DS9 took a few seasons to find its groove -- if Sisko's not bald, you're probably watching the wrong episode -- but man did it get good.  I especially liked the moral ambiguities of the Federation in this series.  showing that we're not perfect is always important in Trek, even if it's at the cost of some of the Utopian imagery.

 You mean the Utopian imagery that was Roddenberry original premise for Star Trek?  That humanity had improved and advanced? 

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@Warbler You should definitely give B5 a go.

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DrCrowTStarwars said:

bkev said:

Jetrell Fo said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

Oh, and IMO, DS9 didn't fuck up Star Trek. If anything, it rectified some of the damage that TNG had done and restored some of the fun to the ST Universe that had been lacking in it since the TOS films had come to an end.

I agree with you 100% on this.  DS9 gave Star Trek it's teeth back.

 Also agreed.  DS9 took a few seasons to find its groove -- if Sisko's not bald, you're probably watching the wrong episode -- but man did it get good.  I especially liked the moral ambiguities of the Federation in this series.  showing that we're not perfect is always important in Trek, even if it's at the cost of some of the Utopian imagery.

Also, seriously.  Jeffrey Combs as Weyoun.  Andrew Robinson as Garak.  PERFECT casting and acting.  In fact, I think the whole cast is strong (but they are the standouts.)  Hell, even Terry Farrell learns to act after a few seasons; a part of me wonders if she really did get attached to Jadzia.

 Yeah not to mention that just watching the characters interact was fun and very interesting.  The episode where Garak tortures Odo is a stand out if you ask me as is any episode with the Maquis,

 that episode made me unfortable.  I lost a lot of respect for Garak's character after that.  I was also unhappy that  Garak wasn't made to pay for what he did to Odo.   What he did was just sick. 

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Yeah for my money it is the best written Sci-Fi show ever to air on American TV. if you can get past the early use of CGI(Hey some one had to be first)and the fact that it takes a few episodes to find it's feet it is full of good acting,an amazing story,and very complex characters and situations. I can still get into debates with people over if Londo was a villain or not and to tell you the truth I am still not decided myself.

Oh and it contains the greatest moment of pure awesome ever seen on a Sci-Fi show...

"Now get the hell out of our galaxy!"

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DrCrowTStarwars said:

the Maquis,the fact that they were human and the issues were so complex that often Sisko was hunting them but you never really felt they were the bad guys always made those episodes a favorite of mine.

I thought the whole thing with the Maquis was stupid imo.  I never liked it. 

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DrCrowTStarwars said:

Yeah for my money it is the best written Sci-Fi show ever to air on American TV.

WHAT!!??????!!!!

YOU WOULD DARE TO SAY THIS . . . IN A STAR TREK THREAD!!!?!?!?!!!

*beats up DrCrowTStarwars*

Now get the hell out of this thread!  

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Warbler said:

DrCrowTStarwars said:

Yeah for my money it is the best written Sci-Fi show ever to air on American TV.

WHAT!!??????!!!!

YOU WOULD DARE TO SAY THIS . . . IN A STAR TREK THREAD!!!?!?!?!!!

*beats up DrCrowTStarwars*

Now get the hell out of this thread!  

Okay but for the record I love Star Trek and Doctor Who too but I think B5 was over all the better written show. That is all.

Now should I talk about why I love SG1 in here or will that just get me beat up again?

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Warbler said:

DrCrowTStarwars said:

bkev said:

Jetrell Fo said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

Oh, and IMO, DS9 didn't fuck up Star Trek. If anything, it rectified some of the damage that TNG had done and restored some of the fun to the ST Universe that had been lacking in it since the TOS films had come to an end.

I agree with you 100% on this.  DS9 gave Star Trek it's teeth back.

 Also agreed.  DS9 took a few seasons to find its groove -- if Sisko's not bald, you're probably watching the wrong episode -- but man did it get good.  I especially liked the moral ambiguities of the Federation in this series.  showing that we're not perfect is always important in Trek, even if it's at the cost of some of the Utopian imagery.

Also, seriously.  Jeffrey Combs as Weyoun.  Andrew Robinson as Garak.  PERFECT casting and acting.  In fact, I think the whole cast is strong (but they are the standouts.)  Hell, even Terry Farrell learns to act after a few seasons; a part of me wonders if she really did get attached to Jadzia.

 Yeah not to mention that just watching the characters interact was fun and very interesting.  The episode where Garak tortures Odo is a stand out if you ask me as is any episode with the Maquis,

 that episode made me unfortable.  I lost a lot of respect for Garak's character after that.  I was also unhappy that  Garak wasn't made to pay for what he did to Odo.   What he did was just sick. 

 That's the point in real life the guilty don't always get punished and Garak was never supposed to be a nice guy. He was always a thug who ended up on the wrong side of politics and you weren't supposed to ever totally like him. he was supposed to be a danger to everyone who got between him and his goals and that episode showed that and was completely in character.  That why I liked DS9 because they let the characters be more complex then other Star trek shows,there were not just heroes and villains there were shades of grey in between.