The Controversial Discussions Thread (Was "The Prejudice Discussion Thread" (Was "The Human Sexuality Discussion Thread" (Was "The Homosexuality Discussion Thread"))) — Page 27

What the fuck shit?

;-)

Seriously though, was that a joke?

How dare anyone call me insensitive with bad breath like that?

bkev said:

As someone who's closest friends identify as on the spectrum, and having a debatable place myself,  I do take some offense to Ender's self-righteous claim that Warb belongs there.  Or, rather, the way he presented it with no tact whatsoever.  Web diagnoses on these sorts of things are pathetic at best - as I would think a nurse would know.  Ender, you're using it as a way to discredit him in argumentative situations on the forum.  Seriously, listing the signs here?  As if to remind everyone else he's below you?

That's the sort of thing that, if you were genuinely curious, should have been addressed in private via PM or something.  

I understand you were trying to be polite, but all you've managed to do is cherry coat a condescending appraisal of Warbler.  I've a right to point out that this comes off as rude.

 I worried very much about this post and the offense it would cause, most especially to Warbler.  However, judging by how you took offense, you didn't understand my post very well.  Web diagnoses are very unreliable things, but I pointed that out myself and tried to emphasize that with TheBoost.  I cannot verify my "suspicions" (as I believe I identified them).  What's more, I never used it in a way to discredit Warbler.  If you read the comment, you will see that I was directing it towards Bingowings, not to discredit him, but to encourage him to be more sympathetic toward Warbler.  I did so with great hesitancy, but I really wanted people to be more sympathetic.  Maybe I didn't do it tactfully, but you have to understand that I wanted people to be kinder to Warbler.  It was a comment meant in his defense.  Please reread it and understand.

bkev said:

As someone who's closest friends identify as on the spectrum, and having a debatable place myself,  I do take some offense to Ender's self-righteous claim that Warb belongs there.  Or, rather, the way he presented it with no tact whatsoever.  Web diagnoses on these sorts of things are pathetic at best - as I would think a nurse would know.  Ender, you're using it as a way to discredit him in argumentative situations on the forum.  Seriously, listing the signs here?  As if to remind everyone else he's below you?

That's the sort of thing that, if you were genuinely curious, should have been addressed in private via PM or something.  

I understand you were trying to be polite, but all you've managed to do is cherry coat a condescending appraisal of Warbler.  I've a right to point out that this comes off as rude.

I was on the ZX Spectrum as a child...In all fairness to Ender this was in response to me calling Warb a passive aggressive paranoiac, that wasn't meant to be a medical diagnosis, it was just a general observation along the same lines as my general observation that Mrebo is doodoo-poopyface.

However if Warb genuinely has concerns about he mental fitness and a few quid from me can help relieve any anxieties he has along those lines I'd donate some cash towards that.

I donate cash to relieve Adywan's anxiety about not having enough Timotei and Hobnobs from time to time.

If someone thought there was something wrong with their knee they would go straight to their GP. I'd imagine a trip to the Doctors would be a step in the right direction if anyone here as any reason to believe their mind a few problems with itself.

How much is a check up from the GP in the States anyway?

THANKS OBAMA

;-)

You're welcome.

Ryan McAvoy said:

Warbler said:

When I could afford it, I was in therapy for my temper.   When I can afford to do so again, I will go back.

 I can't understand all the controversy there has been about trying to improve health care in the US recently. In the UK it's free at-the-point-of-need, anything else just seems like callous insanity. If you are concerend about your health Warbler, I think it's immoral that you have to make a financial choice not to get it. But that's a whole other can of worms.

 Another reason for my voting for Scottish Independence is the corrupt bar-stewards of Westminster proposing a fee for using the NHS and Oh look the think tank behind it are all private healthcare companies... well ain't that a surprise?

bkev said:

As someone who's closest friends identify as on the spectrum, and having a debatable place myself,  I do take some offense to Ender's self-righteous claim that Warb belongs there.  Or, rather, the way he presented it with no tact whatsoever.  Web diagnoses on these sorts of things are pathetic at best - as I would think a nurse would know.  Ender, you're using it as a way to discredit him in argumentative situations on the forum.  Seriously, listing the signs here?  As if to remind everyone else he's below you?

That's the sort of thing that, if you were genuinely curious, should have been addressed in private via PM or something.  

I understand you were trying to be polite, but all you've managed to do is cherry coat a condescending appraisal of Warbler.  I've a right to point out that this comes off as rude.

 bkev, I don't think Ender meant any offense and I didnt take any offense.  I think Ender knows that a 'web diagnoses' can only be considered an estimate, and that without knowing more about me, could very be incorrect.  I think he also knows that although he does have some knowledge about these things, he is technically not qualified to make an official diagnoses.  Ender has always come across as a nice person to me.   I don't think he said what he said to hurt my feelings or discredit me or remind me that I am below him.   

Warbler said:

bkev said:

As someone who's closest friends identify as on the spectrum, and having a debatable place myself,  I do take some offense to Ender's self-righteous claim that Warb belongs there.  Or, rather, the way he presented it with no tact whatsoever.  Web diagnoses on these sorts of things are pathetic at best - as I would think a nurse would know.  Ender, you're using it as a way to discredit him in argumentative situations on the forum.  Seriously, listing the signs here?  As if to remind everyone else he's below you?

That's the sort of thing that, if you were genuinely curious, should have been addressed in private via PM or something.  

I understand you were trying to be polite, but all you've managed to do is cherry coat a condescending appraisal of Warbler.  I've a right to point out that this comes off as rude.

 bkev, I don't think Ender meant any offense and I didnt take any offense.  I think Ender knows that a 'web diagnoses' can only be considered an estimate, and that without knowing more about me, could very be incorrect.  I think he also knows that although he does have some knowledge about these things, he is technically not qualified to make an official diagnoses.  Ender has always come across as a nice person to me.   I don't think he said what he said to hurt my feelings or discredit me or remind me that I am below him.   

 Thank you, Warbler.  I am glad you took this in exactly the light I intended.  I think you are a great guy.  I'm sorry bkev took it so wrong.  He does have every right to tell me if I was rude, but I hope he understands that if it was rude, it was rude in a completely different way.  Again, I'm so glad you didn't see me as being rude.  I really was hoping not to hurt you, and if you took no offense, then I care far less what anyone else thinks.  :)

Say it loud! You are a doodoo-poopyface and you are proud but seriously though despite your worries about becoming Stalinists socialised medicine is one of the best ideas since the invention of edible words.

Bingowings said:

Say it loud! You are a doodoo-poopyface and you are proud but seriously though despite your worries about becoming Stalinists socialised medicine is one of the best ideas since the invention of edible words.

       Without buying drugs, diagnostic equipment, and supplies developed for the American health care market for pennies on the dollar and without the political imperative to compete with the best practices in America, Britain would very soon have Stalinist health care.

thejediknighthusezni said:

Bingowings said:

Say it loud! You are a doodoo-poopyface and you are proud but seriously though despite your worries about becoming Stalinists socialised medicine is one of the best ideas since the invention of edible words.

       Without buying drugs, diagnostic equipment, and supplies developed for the American health care market for pennies on the dollar and without the political imperative to compete with the best practices in America, Britain would very soon have Stalinist health care.

Two of the big five drug companies are British owned and run from Britain.

The other three are northern European and produce their wares here.

Most of the medical equipment in the world is made in China or India not the USA.

UK training hospitals export more Doctors back to the third world than we keep. Arguably the whole world benefits from it and it's not even the best example of a socialised health care system. The French have a much better system than we do.

Mrebo said:

Bingowings said:

However if Warb genuinely has concerns about he mental fitness and a few quid from me can help relieve any anxieties he has along those lines I'd donate some cash towards that.

 

 about the cash, thanks but no thanks.   I could not and will not accept it.  If I want cash for this sort of thing, I could find family members to help.   Donations from the forum are un-necessary.  thanks again. 

Bingowings said:

thejediknighthusezni said:

Bingowings said:

Say it loud! You are a doodoo-poopyface and you are proud but seriously though despite your worries about becoming Stalinists socialised medicine is one of the best ideas since the invention of edible words.

       Without buying drugs, diagnostic equipment, and supplies developed for the American health care market for pennies on the dollar and without the political imperative to compete with the best practices in America, Britain would very soon have Stalinist health care.

Two of the big five drug companies are British owned and run from Britain.

The other three are northern European and produce their wares here.

Most of the medical equipment in the world is made in China or India not the USA.

UK training hospitals export more Doctors back to the third world than we keep. Arguably the whole world benefits from it and it's not even the best example of a socialised health care system. The French have a much better system than we do.

       Point still stands. I was talking about items developed for the American market, not where the corporate suits might be located. China and India copy like crazy. You lose your best doctors because you refuse to pay them appropriately. The biggest reason for anti-Americanism is the Euro political establishments are furious about having to compete with the US best practices.

       If you examine the major medical procedures in the US where the government stays out of it (Lasik, plastic surgeries...), quality has shot upwards over time while prices have fallen through the floor. Where the government keeps ladling on the regulations and mandates, prices have shot out of the solar system while quality stagnates or goes down. The politicians who create the problems then get to step in with "solutions".

      America has a politician problem, not a health care problem.

Much of the equipment in general use in America (medical and otherwise) was developed by and largely for other countries.

The reflecting telescope, the toothbrush, the tin can, the lawn mower, the telephone, the light bulb, the jet engine, the computer, television, the interwebz.

None of these were original American inventions, the fact that India and China now make most medical equipment and north Europe invents most medicines does somewhat undermine your controversial assertion that the NHS is somehow subsidised by America.

I wish we did make all of our medical equipment and had labs breaking the patents on privately patented medicine. Sadly our politician problem is down to greedy gits thinking they can make a quick buck privatising a national asset.

As for cosmetic surgery and the like, these aren't generally available on the NHS either. People are more likely to save and pay for a Moob job than instigate an insurance policy for essential work, especially with the recent history of corruption scandals in the financial service industry.

Preventing disease and injury are as vital a national service as preventing an invasion from a foreign enemy or a civil war. You can't leave vital services to market forces. If you could we would privatise the military and Government.

Bingowings said:

Much of the equipment in general use in America (medical and otherwise) was developed by and largely for other countries.

The reflecting telescope, the toothbrush, the tin can, the lawn mower, the telephone, the light bulb, the jet engine, the computer, television, the interwebz.

None of these were original American inventions, the fact that India and China now make most medical equipment and north Europe invents most medicines does somewhat undermine your controversial assertion that the NHS is somehow subsidised by America.

I wish we did make all of our medical equipment and had labs breaking the patents on privately patented medicine. Sadly our politician problem is down to greedy gits thinking they can make a quick buck privatising a national asset.

As for cosmetic surgery and the like, these aren't generally available on the NHS either. People are more likely to save and pay for a Moob job than instigate an insurance policy for essential work, especially with the recent history of corruption scandals in the financial service industry.

Preventing disease and injury are as vital a national service as preventing an invasion from a foreign enemy or a civil war. You can't leave vital services to market forces. If you could we would privatise the military and Government.

     A greatly disproportionate share is originally developed in the US. But I'm really not focused on where an item is developed or which corporate logo is stamped on it. I'm looking at the MOST PROFOUND EFFECTS that are created by the MULTI-TRILLION DOLLAR US market. All the good stuff is being developed with the knowledge that the US will bear a greatly disproportionate share of the costs and the other state health care systems can swoop in and bulk-purchase at tremendous discounts. The greater individual responsibility and flexibility leads to much greater innovations with quicker applications. The LASIK and plastic surgery procedures are the outstanding examples of this.

    What you call a "greedy git", I call an entreprenuer who wants bring much better goods and services to the people more quickly and less expensively (if he isn't expecting government "help".) The "greed" of such people is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING compared the lust for ever increasing, life and death POWER over the masses that the "incremental" TOTALITARIAN lefties will inevitably pursue.

        BTW, where's the love for the financial sector peeps? My understanding is that the London area financial sector is the only thing keeping the NHS and, indeed, the ENTIRE economy afloat. If you're going to rely on the NHS for your survival, I strongly suggest that you go to London, find a "finance git", and passionately kiss his toes (being that it's Britain, he'd probably get into that kinda thing;) 

        Food production is FAR more immediately essential to survival than health care. All of human history teaches us about what a wonderful idea it would be to have the government totally manage that.  

The London Financial centre is a giant leech sucking the life out of Britain.

We used to be have energy security, a strong manufacturing base and then Thatcher turned the place into a call centre and then relocated the call centre to India.

The ideal solution for the UK is to kick the whole 'city' into the Thames.

An entrepreneur is some who starts businesses that employ people.

Those gits actively seek to close and break up viable businesses to make a themselves more rich than they already are.

A national non-market orientated solution to health is as essential as a national non-market solution to defense.

Nobody will buy essential cover medical Insurance from the sort of sector that does this.

They might save up for a boob job or a nice set of dental implants but to protect themselves from a potential fatal or chronic condition they need a scheme protected from thieves of that order.

thejediknighthusezni said:

 

        Food production is FAR more immediately essential to survival than health care. All of human history teaches us about what a wonderful idea it would be to have the government totally manage that.  

 You know what's more important than food? Excretion of waste. You die even faster than starvation if you're body can't filter blood. I cant wait to see how the lib-tard fascists try to take over my kidneys and screw it up! Damn Obama!

(For reals though, your rhetorical flourishes are often exhausting to even try to think through)

     There's no such thing as financiers who provide desperately needed capital to struggling or expanding businesses. They don't bring any money into Britain. They do nothing to make up for the effects of socialism.

     I am curious, after you communise everything, where do you plan to find the resources to run your NHS?? Didn't the Neo-Marxist Labour Party run up a crushing deficit trying to sustain that whole approach?

     If I am made Supreme Imperious Poobah of British health care, I'll reorder things and then retire within a long weekend. "Ya know those forces and methods that cause Lasik and plastic surgeries to increase in quality while decreasing in costs? Yeah, we're gonna do that stuff with all major med procedures." Everyone would get relatively inexpensive high-deductable catastrophic insurance and a medical savings account. Once the account is built up to a certain level, inividual adults could start pocketing thousands of dollars a year. Health services companies would EXPLODE onto the scene And become a COSMICALLY HUGE TAX BASE instead of a DEVASTATING drain on government coffers. Med services consumers would become shrewd and responsible. No such thing as waiting months or years for rationed procedures. Dynamism and innovation galore...

     Of course, that would put a damper on the program to bring the glories of the old Soviet Union to all Britain.

LOUD NOISES

There are differences of approach. For some people suffering is good for the soul and poor and sick people suffer because their soul needs a bit of a sprucing up.

For the sane people of the planet suffering is a pain to be avoided and a mature society recognises this.

The French generally speaking don't mind paying higher taxes than us because they get a level of social service that would just blow your tiny mind.It gives me the willies.

Here in the UK while we recognise that suffering isn't fate's way of weeding out the herd we tend to be afflicted by a class of people who want their presents and more pocket money. Essentially deranged spoilt children :