I was mainly talking in the reviews department. Remember, there were those who gave the prequels good reviews.
You know, the metaphor doesn't really hold up that well. Forget I said anything...
I’m just here because I’m driving tonight.
Aren't films like TLA more like work for hire where M. Night is concerned? He hasn't made anything like his signature films for a while.
In spite of his peripheral involvement, Lucas is forever associated with Howard the Duck.
Where were you in '77?
No, I get it, and I agree--in fact, they both seem to have begun their downward spirals at about the same time...
Perhaps the trees in Hollywood were doing something particularly funky.
M. Night approached Michael and Bryan and said 'I want to make a live-action film version of your show--my entire family loves it'. Then they proceeded to allow M. Night to also write the film, instead of doing the screenplay themselves.
Devil seemed more like his usual stuff.
I stand corrected. Hollywood has botched more than a few adaptations of animated shows the past decade or so. The Dragonball movie for starters.
Where were you in '77?
OH GOD DRAGONBALL EVOLUTION
That was the most unintentionally hilarious movie I'd seen in a long time. It's right up there with Dragonball: The Magic Begins in terms of badness (but without the cheesy Chinese knockoff charm.)
Sadako said:
M. Night approached Michael and Bryan and said 'I want to make a live-action film version of your show--my entire family loves it'. Then they proceeded to allow M. Night to also write the film, instead of doing the screenplay themselves.
You know, if he had just been director, I don't think the film would be as universally reviled.
The cinematography is not the problem, it's the writing. The script is one of the most ineloquent I've ever come across.
Some other professional writer (not necessarily Bryke) should have written it.
Sorry to go off on a tangent, I just only recently watched the film, and the script was the second biggest problem.
The first was editing.
I’m just here because I’m driving tonight.
^ Same thing goes for the Prequels. Oh hey, look at that, back on topic!
Seriously, though, there are scriptwriting classes and seminars even at community colleges. It's not like it's this lost art, some sort of deep magic that was only known to the druids who used it to build Stonehenge. Learning how to write a decent script is totally possible, even for Lucas and Shyamalan.
It's not about meeting a quota of models built per movie. It's about your eyeballs looking at some kind of digital effect for virtually the entire 6 hours, regardless of whether some miniatures comprise some of the elements within shots.
Sadako said:
^ Same thing goes for the Prequels. Oh hey, look at that, back on topic!
Seriously, though, there are scriptwriting classes and seminars even at community colleges. It's not like it's this lost art, some sort of deep magic that was only known to the druids who used it to build Stonehenge. Learning how to write a decent script is totally possible, even for Lucas and Shyamalan.
Lucas has often said how much he hates writing.
Where were you in '77?
He does? Now I've heard everything!
Ol’ George has the GOUT, I see.
I love how OBIWAN seems to think having miniature sets isn't something to be wary of.
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OBI-WAN37 said:
There are more miniatures and models in each Star Wars prequels than entire OT. The whole "there's too much CGI" is not true. I've seen people comment on TFN saying they prefer the original trilogy but still know there are more models and miniatures in the PT.
You need to stop for a moment and consider why people aren't recognizing the model work in the prequel trilogy. The reason people keep confusing the models for bad CG is because the way the models are presented, they look like bad CG. I remember being rather unimpressed with the obviously CG arena near the end of Episode II. It was only after watching a "making of" bonus feature on the DVD that I found out the arena was a physical model. I was actually shocked that it was a model because it looked so fake at the time that I was convinced it was created in a computer.
The whole point of models in a live-action movie is to have something that looks real when you can't justify building full-scale. If the models are built and integrated into the movie in such a way as to make them match a sea of bad CG elements, then it defeats the purpose of using models. That's probably the big technical triumph of the prequel trilogy; the ability to consistently make real, physical objects look completely fake continues to astound me.
Ryan McAvoy said:
Oh and George, Ric McCallum and the rest of the crew thought TPM was cr*p too (Not just OT fans). Anybody got a link to that footage of them in stunned and horrified silence for a few seconds after the first private screening?
If that's true, how come they didn't just throw it out and do it over again? Especially since they had it planned out from the start?
Ol’ George has the GOUT, I see.
FrankT said:
Ryan McAvoy said:
Oh and George, Ric McCallum and the rest of the crew thought TPM was cr*p too (Not just OT fans). Anybody got a link to that footage of them in stunned and horrified silence for a few seconds after the first private screening?
If that's true, how come they didn't just throw it out and do it over again? Especially since they had it planned out from the start?
Found it (The aftermath of the first screening is at 54.50)...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8sBsnYNucM
My moments are: George dejectedly saying "I may have gone too far" and "It boggles the mind", Ben Burtt disecting some of the things wrong with it and the best is the shot of Ric McCallum at 54.41 looking like he's going to burst into tears. Then them all standing around in the kitchen with George saying it can't be fixed LOL.
VIZ TOP TIPS! - PARENTS. Impress your children by showing them a floppy disk and telling them it’s a 3D model of a save icon.
This is one of the top comments.
Lee TLC said:
Look at all the assholes below hating on the hard work done to create this film. They act like it was their story to tell, like they could have done better. Guess what, this was Lucas' film and his world. You don't like it? get over it. Any other director would have made it bad. If you think the prequels were already bad, any other director would have made it worse.
I’m just here because I’m driving tonight.
Tack said:
The prequels were Lucas' Signs and Lady in the Water, and Red Tails was his The Happening.
I'd rather compare Signs to one of the SE films than to a prequel.
You know, that's fair.
I’m just here because I’m driving tonight.
FrankT said:
Ryan McAvoy said:
Oh and George, Ric McCallum and the rest of the crew thought TPM was cr*p too (Not just OT fans). Anybody got a link to that footage of them in stunned and horrified silence for a few seconds after the first private screening?
If that's true, how come they didn't just throw it out and do it over again? Especially since they had it planned out from the start?
They did re-edit a lot of the movie, particularly the last act. I think they were counting on the same miracle that made Star Wars '77 watchable after the rough cut.
Star Wars in it's rough state is far more watchable though. No amount of editing can save a movie if you don't have a good story to begin with.
Where were you in '77?
As far as I know Lucas didn't have to call all the actors back to reshoot half their scenes in ANH like he did on TPM (And the other two). Because ANH's problems were all down to pacing and 99% of the ground-breaking FX and wonderous music being missing, the performances, story and setup were all sound.
I've done the best part of a long-long cut of the ANH workprint with any and all material added back in (40 minutes-ish). It slows the pace down massively but it's still an enjoyable film because the material is just plain good no matter how you arrange or edit it.
TPM material was flawed from the very deepest core of it's inception. No amount of skilled editing is gonna pull a 1977 out of a 1999 and I think that's was why the blood had drained from all their faces after watching that TPM rough cut.
VIZ TOP TIPS! - PARENTS. Impress your children by showing them a floppy disk and telling them it’s a 3D model of a save icon.
Look at the CG effects used in Jurassic Park compared with the CG used in AotC, ten years later.
In Jurassic Park, they had to make the CG dinosaurs look indistinguishable from the full scale models and animatronics that were used in close-ups, and the effects still stand up today. In AotC, they used CG for everything--the aliens, the vehicles, the sets, everything, and the effects haven't aged particularly well (compared to films that are twice as old). If they had used animatronics or actors in make-up, it would have given the CG artists at ILM something to shoot towards in their rendering, something real to match.
This featurette is particularly illuminating, given that they're talking in the early 90's about effects technology that moviegoers take for granted now. (Also, physical models of the Falcon against bluescreens in '77.)
I wonder how Ahmed Best in the Jar Jar suit they spent millions(!) on, augmented by CGI facial expressions would have looked. The Narnia films used this approach for several creatures, and it seemed to work really well.
Where were you in '77?
Ryan McAvoy said:
FrankT said:
Ryan McAvoy said:
Oh and George, Ric McCallum and the rest of the crew thought TPM was cr*p too (Not just OT fans). Anybody got a link to that footage of them in stunned and horrified silence for a few seconds after the first private screening?
If that's true, how come they didn't just throw it out and do it over again? Especially since they had it planned out from the start?
Found it (The aftermath of the first screening is at 54.50)...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8sBsnYNucM
My moments are: George dejectedly saying "I may have gone too far" and "It boggles the mind", Ben Burtt disecting some of the things wrong with it and the best is the shot of Ric McCallum at 54.41 looking like he's going to burst into tears. Then them all standing around in the kitchen with George saying it can't be fixed LOL.
Of course, that was just the rough cut... still...
I've never forgotten the moment that whoever-it-was stood on stage, said "This is awesome", sending the crowd wild just as the film started... I can't even begin to imagine the disappointment that followed.
Ol’ George has the GOUT, I see.
FrankT said:
Ryan McAvoy said:
FrankT said:
Ryan McAvoy said:
Oh and George, Ric McCallum and the rest of the crew thought TPM was cr*p too (Not just OT fans). Anybody got a link to that footage of them in stunned and horrified silence for a few seconds after the first private screening?
If that's true, how come they didn't just throw it out and do it over again? Especially since they had it planned out from the start?
Found it (The aftermath of the first screening is at 54.50)...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8sBsnYNucM
My moments are: George dejectedly saying "I may have gone too far" and "It boggles the mind", Ben Burtt disecting some of the things wrong with it and the best is the shot of Ric McCallum at 54.41 looking like he's going to burst into tears. Then them all standing around in the kitchen with George saying it can't be fixed LOL.
Of course, that was just the rough cut... still...
I've never forgotten the moment that whoever-it-was stood on stage, said "This is awesome", sending the crowd wild just as the film started... I can't even begin to imagine the disappointment that followed.
It was McCallum in that same video I linked to. The video ends/fades-out with everybody at the premiere cheering the SW logo and just before reading the crawl. Peter Serafinowicz (Darth Maul) talks about the moment at the premiere just after that video ends, in this podcast (About 25 minutes in)...
https://soundcloud.com/britishcomedyguide/richard-herring-lst-podcast-12-peter-serafinowicz
...when everyone started reading all the nonsense about trade disputes etc and realising something was very, very wrong.
VIZ TOP TIPS! - PARENTS. Impress your children by showing them a floppy disk and telling them it’s a 3D model of a save icon.