logo Sign In

What do you HATE about the EU? — Page 12

Author
Time

Fang Zei said:

The tweet Kilroy refers to was from Pablo Hidalgo back in December. It caused quite a stir because he basically said the only things that were ever "canon" are the movies and the clone wars series. In other words "only what's up on screen." Everything else in this model is merely "continuity."

 Was able to track it down. That does muddy the waters but it wasn't an official statement of policy. It was an off the cuff remark.

If their intention was to completely do away with the EU then they wouldn't have been so quick to cobble that retcon together for the Korriban/Moraband debacle.

We'll have to wait for an official announcement before we know where the dust has settled.

Forum Moderator
Author
Time
 (Edited)

DuracellEnergizer said:

imperialscum said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

There are two ways to deal with TOTJ. First, ignore it for the most part like KOTOR did. Second, consider it and make some evolution from it, like SWTOR did.

You're ignoring a third option -- running with what TOTJ set up.

No I am not ignoring it. It is basically the second option without any evolution/development, which is hands down stupid and unacceptable. Thousand years ago in Europe people wore armour and fought with swords... in your version, soldiers in WW2 should wore armour and fought with swords as well.

 I fail to see how this has anything to do with Sith aesthetics/characterization.

Well just extend my example... compare today's aesthetics (clothes, buildings, art, cities, transportations, etc) and way of living to medieval aesthetics and way of living.

DuracellEnergizer said:

That's a single character, who was never identified as a Sith prior to the release of TPM, whose body was ravaged from a lifetime spent in uncommonly extreme devotion to the dark side.

Technically he was never explicitly identified as a Sith prior to ROTS. In ROTJ he is only referred to as the emperor of the empire. Only in ROTS it was explicitly revealed that Palpatine and Sidious are one and the same person and then connected them with ROTJ as he proclaimed himself an emperor.

As for his pale skin being an effect of Dark Side... that is how I see it too. However that is only our assumption since it is never explained. It is the same as assuming emperor in OT was a Sith. Yet you claim the first to be an indisputable fact and the second as something completely false. And this is just one of many cases where you do that. That kind of attitude is quite arrogant and childish if I may say so.

DuracellEnergizer said:

Nothing about what little was revealed about the Sith prior to TOTJ precludes the possibility that the Sith started out as a species/culture before evolving into a religion.

Nothing prior to PT precludes the possibility that Vader was actually a snivelling whiny unlikeable jerk before he turned into one the most awesome characters ever. Do you finally get my point? Just because the concepts are not fully explored it doesn't mean one can crap over them.

(Btw personally I like Sith starting out as a red-skinned species... I am just being objective here)

DuracellEnergizer said:

Why should I? Ever since TPM was released, the Sith have become shallow, one-dimensional, interchangeable clowns who are evil for the sake of being evil, and I for one am sick and tired of see them overrun each and every era and aspect of the EU.

A nice generalisation over much of the stuff you aren't even aware of.

真実

Author
Time
 (Edited)

imperialscum said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

imperialscum said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

There are two ways to deal with TOTJ. First, ignore it for the most part like KOTOR did. Second, consider it and make some evolution from it, like SWTOR did.

You're ignoring a third option -- running with what TOTJ set up.

No I am not ignoring it. It is basically the second option without any evolution/development, which is hands down stupid and unacceptable. Thousand years ago in Europe people wore armour and fought with swords... in your version, soldiers in WW2 should wore armour and fought with swords as well.

 I fail to see how this has anything to do with Sith aesthetics/characterization.

Well just extend my example... compare today's aesthetics (clothes, buildings, art, cities, transportations, etc) and way of living to medieval aesthetics and way of living.

This analogy doesn't work because the Sith of the Sith Empire and the Sith of TOR are both interstellar civilizations with FTL travel and advanced energy weapons.

As for his pale skin being an effect of Dark Side... that is how I see it too. However that is only our assumption since it is never explained. It the same as assuming emperor in OT was a Sith. Yet you claim the first to be an indisputable fact and the second as something completely false. And this is just one of many cases where you do that. That kind of attitude is quite arrogant and childish if I may say so.

I'm basing my "assumption" that Palpatine's appearance was the result of dark side corruption on Dark Empire, which overtly established that Palpatine's appearance was the result of dark side corruption. 

 

DuracellEnergizer said:

Nothing about what little was revealed about the Sith prior to TOTJ precludes the possibility that the Sith started out as a species/culture before evolving into a religion.

Nothing prior to PT precludes the possibility that Vader was actually a snivelling whiny unlikeable jerk before he turned into one the most awesome characters ever. Do you finally get my point? Just because the concepts are not fully explored it doesn't mean one can crap over them.

(Btw personally I like Sith starting out as a red-skinned species... I am just being objective here)

Making Anakin a snivelling whiny unlikeable jerk tarnishes and undermines the character as he was in the OT. Making the original Sith a race doesn't tarnish or undermine the non-biological Sith.

 

DuracellEnergizer said:

Why should I? Ever since TPM was released, the Sith have become shallow, one-dimensional, interchangeable clowns who are evil for the sake of being evil, and I for one am sick and tired of see them overrun each and every era and aspect of the EU.

A nice generalisation over much of the stuff you aren't even aware of.

I'm not going to devote time and effort into pouring over every modern EU story in search of Sith who aren't sociopathic social Darwinist assholes. There's better things to do -- better EU to explore -- with my time.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

DuracellEnergizer said:

This analogy doesn't work because the Sith of the Sith Empire and the Sith of TOR are both interstellar civilizations with FTL travel and advanced energy weapons.

The analogy is completely valid. The level is different but the variation is the same.

DuracellEnergizer said:

I'm basing my "assumption" that Palpatine's appearance was the result of dark side corruption on Dark Empire, which overtly established that Palpatine's appearance was the result of dark side corruption.

Dark Empire is just another EU source... and a very bad one imo. That is no better than basing stuff on PT.

DuracellEnergizer said:

Making Anakin a snivelling whiny unlikeable jerk tarnishes and undermines the character as he was in the OT. Making the original Sith a race doesn't tarnish or undermine the non-biological Sith.

Opinion.

DuracellEnergizer said:

Sith who aren't sociopathic social Darwinist assholes.

Sith has been that since OT... Vader chocking imperial failures, Emperor replacing Vader with a younger more capable guy.

真実

Author
Time

The Making of ROTJ says that Palpatine uses the dark side to prolong his life and that his appearance is a consequence of that.

Author
Time

darklordoftech said:

The Making of ROTJ says that Palpatine uses the dark side to prolong his life and that his appearance is a consequence of that.

I know, but at that point we were talking strictly on-screen stuff.

真実

Author
Time

imperialscum said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

This analogy doesn't work because the Sith of the Sith Empire and the Sith of TOR are both interstellar civilizations with FTL travel and advanced energy weapons.

The analogy is completely valid. The level is different but the variation is the same.

Going off the current EU timeline, almost three thousand years passed between the end of the Hundred-Year Darkness and the Great Hyperspace War. In all that time, there was no significant change in regards to Sith technology or aesthetics. Yet I'm supposed to believe that only a thousand years, give-or-take, after the Great Hyperspace War, every single aspect about their culture undergoes a radical overhaul, turning them from sword-and-sorcery type magicians and warriors into ultra high-tech space age marauders.

I'm not buying it.

 

DuracellEnergizer said:

I'm basing my "assumption" that Palpatine's appearance was the result of dark side corruption on Dark Empire, which overtly established that Palpatine's appearance was the result of dark side corruption.

Dark Empire is just another EU source... and a very bad one imo. That is no better than basing stuff on PT.

We're already discussing EU matters, so Dark Empire -- however bad you may think it is -- is as valid a source as any in regards to a discussion on EU matters.

 

DuracellEnergizer said:

Making Anakin a snivelling whiny unlikeable jerk tarnishes and undermines the character as he was in the OT. Making the original Sith a race doesn't tarnish or undermine the non-biological Sith.

Opinion.

Yeah, it's an opinion. How about you provide an argument showing how it's at all wrong or inaccurate?

 

DuracellEnergizer said:

Sith who aren't sociopathic social Darwinist assholes.

Sith has been that since OT... Vader chocking imperial failures, Emperor replacing Vader with a younger guy.

And all Jedi wear brown desert hermit robes, have funny speech patterns, and make their apprentices give them piggy-back rides.

Author
Time

DuracellEnergizer said:

imperialscum said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

This analogy doesn't work because the Sith of the Sith Empire and the Sith of TOR are both interstellar civilizations with FTL travel and advanced energy weapons.

The analogy is completely valid. The level is different but the variation is the same.

Going off the current EU timeline, almost three thousand years passed between the end of the Hundred-Year Darkness and the Great Hyperspace War. In all that time, there was no significant change in regards to Sith technology or aesthetics. Yet I'm supposed to believe that only a thousand years, give-or-take, after the Great Hyperspace War, every single aspect about their culture undergoes a radical overhaul, turning them from sword-and-sorcery type magicians and warriors into ultra high-tech space age marauders.

I'm not buying it.

Take a look at Africa. Just several decades ago most of them were naked, living in tribes and fought with spears. Now they are fighting each other (in conflicts you are not even aware of) with modern assault rifles, rocket launchers and drinking coca cola.

DuracellEnergizer said:

Opinion.

Yeah, it's an opinion. How about you provide an argument showing how it's at all wrong or inaccurate?

Opinion is an opinion... it can't be wrong. It is like you telling me you like apples and then someone would try to argue you are wrong.

真実

Author
Time
 (Edited)

That the sandcrawlers weren't built by Jawas. I love the idea that the Jawas are more advanced than they appear.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

imperialscum said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

imperialscum said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

This analogy doesn't work because the Sith of the Sith Empire and the Sith of TOR are both interstellar civilizations with FTL travel and advanced energy weapons.

The analogy is completely valid. The level is different but the variation is the same.

Going off the current EU timeline, almost three thousand years passed between the end of the Hundred-Year Darkness and the Great Hyperspace War. In all that time, there was no significant change in regards to Sith technology or aesthetics. Yet I'm supposed to believe that only a thousand years, give-or-take, after the Great Hyperspace War, every single aspect about their culture undergoes a radical overhaul, turning them from sword-and-sorcery type magicians and warriors into ultra high-tech space age marauders.

I'm not buying it.

Take a look at Africa. Just several decades ago most of them were naked, living in tribes and fought with spears. Now they are fighting each other (in conflicts you are not even aware of) with modern assault rifles, rocket launchers and drinking coca cola.

The Africans never ruled an interstellar empire, did they?

DuracellEnergizer said:

Opinion.

Yeah, it's an opinion. How about you provide an argument showing how it's at all wrong or inaccurate?

Opinion is an opinion... it can't be wrong. It is like you telling me you like apples and then someone would try to argue you are wrong.

Wow. I totally didn't realize that before now. *sarcasm*

Author
Time

The TOR Sith Emperor and Empire. They undermine Palpatine and his Empire in every way possible.

Author
Time

How many times do you have to say it! ;)

Author
Time

DuracellEnergizer said:

The Africans never ruled an interstellar empire, did they?

Seriously... I was giving real life examples of both gradual evolution and rapid change of civilisations in real world and you come up with that?

真実

Author
Time
 (Edited)

*sigh* You think it makes sense within the context of the SW Universe, I don't. Fine, sure, whatever.

Frankly, I'm tired of this discussion. You like the modern depiction of the Sith, I hate it, we're never going to agree on anything, we'll never change each other's mind, so can we just drop it, please?

Author
Time
 (Edited)

DuracellEnergizer said:

*sigh* You think it makes sense within the context of the SW Universe, I don't. Fine, sure, whatever.

Frankly, I'm tired of this discussion. You like the modern depiction of the Sith, I hate it, we're never going to agree on anything, we'll never change each other's mind, so can we just drop it, please?

I primarily like OT depiction of the Sith. As for EU, my liking is not limited to "old" or "modern". If it is good I like it. If it is bad I don't like.

I agree. We better drop it.

真実

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Luke turning to the dark side in Dark Empire. The whole point of Luke is that he's different from Anakin.

Author
Time

imperialscum said: I agree. We better drop it.

I hope this means that you will stop getting so butthurt every time somebody says something bad about KOTOR and/or SWTOR.

Author
Time

darklordoftech said:

Luke turning to the dark side in Dark Empire. The whole point of Luke is that he's different from Anakin.

 Indeed. I hate Dark Empire as a whole. Dark Horse has grown leaps and bounds from their beginning. I'm really sad about the end of their Star Wars reign. =(

Forum Moderator
Author
Time
 (Edited)

darklordoftech said:

imperialscum said: I agree. We better drop it.

I hope this means that you will stop getting so butthurt every time somebody says something bad about KOTOR and/or SWTOR.

I was not offended or anything. I was either trying to correct false claims from lack of knowledge or point out double standards.

真実

Author
Time

imperialscum said:

darklordoftech said:

imperialscum said: I agree. We better drop it.

I hope this means that you will stop getting so butthurt every time somebody says something bad about KOTOR and/or SWTOR.

I was not offended or anything. I was either trying to correct false claims from lack of knowledge or point out double standards.

Glad to hear that.

Author
Time

I just don't understand why what some corporation says about a media property they didn't even create is supposed to effect my enjoyment or opinions of these stories in the slightest.

The Force Unleashed II was official canon uber legit, and it was poop, and will be poop tomorrow if some Disney functionairy declares it noncanon.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

I think some fanboys get so swept up into the concept of canon that they subconsciously believe that the abstact decanonization of a beloved story will somehow seep into the real world and physically erase it from existence.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

DuracellEnergizer said:

I think some fanboys get so swept up into the concept of canon that they subconsciously believe that the abstact decanonization of a beloved story will somehow seep into the real world and physically erase it from existence.

I agree with this post 100%. 

I would hate it if the movies ARE beholden to the EU. I want a living Chewie in VII and I want the movies to be free to establish a better Sith history than the one in SWTOR (the Sith shouldn't be founded by fallen Jedi and the Jedi shouldn't keep thinking that the Sith are extinct).

Author
Time

His species is so weird and different I would have pegged you for liking him. What about him do you despise?

Forum Moderator