The Conspiracy Theories Thread(was: 911 Conspiracy theories) — Page 8

RicOlie_2 said:

However, the chances of intelligent life evolving without a supernatural force guiding the process is extremely slim, which is why it is doubtful that there is other intelligent life in this universe which is only finite, not infinite. In an infinite universe, the chances of life would be infinitely higher.

Everything that is physically * going on in your body can be explained using basic chemistry with a bit of physics thrown in (call it Biology). Considering the time scale and the possible combinations of chance interactions of elements  life emerging is almost inevitable, intelligence too, awareness is a bit less likely but not bizarrely probable considering the challenges we and a few other species have had to endure on this planet.

What's more fun and reasonably probable (if unlikely) is that the result of these emergent awarenesses could be a God which could start the universe. Time travel should be a doddle for a God.

RicOlie_2 said:

The chances of intelligent life evolving on other planets in our universe without a master designer is, are I said, incredibly slim, even in a universe this size. This wouldn't be the case in an infinite universe, though, which would be infinitely larger than ours, and thus have an infinitely greater chance of producing multiple intelligent life forms.

With an intelligent designer, the chances of intelligent life elsewhere are significantly greater, though that depends on the nature of said designer.

You can keep saying it but it doesn't make it any less untrue.

If you just mix all the chemicals detected on the early Earth and expose it to electrical charge Amino acids spontaneously gather.

Get enough of them and deep time and you have life.

Leave it long enough in a challenging environment and it will evolve the internets and blame itself on God.

RicOlie_2 said:

The chances of intelligent life evolving on other planets in our universe without a master designer is, are I said, incredibly slim, even in a universe this size. This wouldn't be the case in an infinite universe, though, which would be infinitely larger than ours, and thus have an infinitely greater chance of producing multiple intelligent life forms.

With an intelligent designer, the chances of intelligent life elsewhere are significantly greater, though that depends on the nature of said designer.

 If there is a supernatural force helping us along, why does that necessarily mean they haven't helped other places as well?  Even if you believe the bible, nowhere in the bible does it say we are alone in the universe.

(but it does say the earth is round and also that the continents used to be together as one which was not accepted as fact until much later but that's a debate for another time)

The Catholic church is totally agnostic on the subject.

The Mormon churches are pretty much reliant on belief on other planets for their canonical narrative.

God isn't needed to create intelligent life any more than you need a carpenter to make a soft place to sit in a field (indeed some of the synthetic chairs on local buses are much filthier than a moss covered log or a grassy knoll).

Possessed said:

RicOlie_2 said:

The chances of intelligent life evolving on other planets in our universe without a master designer is, are I said, incredibly slim, even in a universe this size. This wouldn't be the case in an infinite universe, though, which would be infinitely larger than ours, and thus have an infinitely greater chance of producing multiple intelligent life forms.

With an intelligent designer, the chances of intelligent life elsewhere are significantly greater, though that depends on the nature of said designer.

 If there is a supernatural force helping us along, why does that necessarily mean they haven't helped other places as well?  Even if you believe the bible, nowhere in the bible does it say we are alone in the universe.

(but it does say the earth is round and also that the continents used to be together as one which was not accepted as fact until much later but that's a debate for another time)

 Why does that necessarily mean they haven't helped other places as well? It certainly doesn't and I never said such a thing, so you're asking the wrong person. I meant that the chances of intelligent life elsewhere in the universe is incredibly slim without an intelligent designer. Nowhere in the Bible does it say we are alone in the universe and nowhere in the teachings of the Catholic Church does it say we are (as Bingowings said, it doesn't say we aren't either).

I don't see why you're challenging me on that, since that's basically the same thing I said.  You said the chance of intelligent life without a god elsewhere is unlikely, and I said that god could very well be in other places as well.  Pretty sure we're on the same page here, don't understand why your arguing with me about it.

Rewinding a bit, is this branch of debate a discussion as to if God conspired to create us (if so with whom?) or if man conspired to hide God's work (if so who are the players)?

Where do the aliens come in?

Forgive me but this bit of the discussion is sounding more like the script to Prometheus which isn't a theory just a crazy asinine prequel.

I don't really know what this debate is about.

My personal belief is that there is a "god" throughout the whole universe.  He may or may not be a part of an organization that he is the head of, he may be by him/herself, I don't know, and that's not really the central focus of my belief.

What I really believe, is that all gods that people believe in are the same and have just had their backstories changed by all people's different races interpretations of the story, in combination with different alterations due to word of mouth, and all people have had those that are "corrupt" that wish to bend the religion to their own personal tastes.

I believe in "spirituality" more than a specific God.  I think people of all races have taken what is true and changed it through the evolution of their own cultures until what was once one has taken a variety of different stories and gods as they are now.

For example.  Do I believe the god of the bible exists?  Absolutely.  Do I think everything the bible says is true/happened?  Absolutely not, the stories have all changed and with every new generation the story was warped until it was written down.  I believe that god exists, I do NOT believe every commandment in the bible came from him.

Other polytheistic religions I believe also have their ROOTS in things that are real.  I believe they have seen/felt the beings that they call their gods, but have simply given them their own interpretations which may each have their own correct or incorrect assumptions about each of them.

But how is it on topic (beyond being another example of the sorts of things large groups of people believe despite others are calling them nuts and the official evidence points in other directions)?

^Indeed.  Though I wonder what on earth you are talking about here:

Bingowings said:

The Mormon churches are pretty much reliant on belief on other planets for their canonical narrative.

I am unsure of what you are referring to here.  We do believe that God has created life elsewhere, but it is hardly significant to our doctrine or canonical narrative.  If we were to change that one little item, it would not alter our manner of worship or any other aspect of our religious practice.

God isn't needed to create intelligent life any more than you need a carpenter to make a soft place to sit in a field (indeed some of the synthetic chairs on local buses are much filthier than a moss covered log or a grassy knoll).

 You oversimplify a bit.  Even non-believing scientists acknowledge that even under the rare perfect circumstances that our earth finds itself in, life, especially sentient life, are hardly inevitable.  Only the vastness of our universe allows for those rare opportunities to arise in a spontaneous theory, and even then one cannot help but wonder how the laws that led to such creation came to exist.

But it's all pretty crazy and asinine anyway.

Bingowings said:

But how is it on topic (beyond being another example of the sorts of things large groups of people believe despite others are calling them nuts and the official evidence points in other directions)?

Everybody knows that god looks like this:

darth_ender said:

^Indeed.  Though I wonder what on earth you are talking about here:

Bingowings said:

The Mormon churches are pretty much reliant on belief on other planets for their canonical narrative.

I am unsure of what you are referring to here.  We do believe that God has created life elsewhere, but it is hardly significant to our doctrine or canonical narrative.  If we were to change that one little item, it would not alter our manner of worship or any other aspect of our religious practice.

God isn't needed to create intelligent life any more than you need a carpenter to make a soft place to sit in a field (indeed some of the synthetic chairs on local buses are much filthier than a moss covered log or a grassy knoll).

 You oversimplify a bit.  Even non-believing scientists acknowledge that even under the rare perfect circumstances that our earth finds itself in, life, especially sentient life, are hardly inevitable.  Only the vastness of our universe allows for those rare opportunities to arise in a spontaneous theory, and even then one cannot help but wonder how the laws that led to such creation came to exist.

But it's all pretty crazy and asinine anyway.

Not just the vastness of the universe which allows for organic materials to spontaneously emerge not only on Earth but in space but also the depth of time which allows those materials the chance to alter and shift in an effort to remain stable in an ever changing environment.

Yes it's inevitable.

The organic materials can be scraped off a jar in almost any lab.

You can't scrape Geoffrey Chaucer yet, that takes longer but on enough planets who knows?

Chairness is an emergent property of the shape and strength of a physical object or collection of objects and the act of them being sat upon.

Some chairs are designed as such (and used as weapons in bar fights) others are hillocks and not designed by anyone but sometimes work better.

As for not being sure what I'm referring to ask a Mormon. A physical being on another planet would match most people's definition of an extraterrestrial intelligence.

darklordoftech said:

Everybody knows that god looks like this:

 I don't even know what the hell that is.

It's a Pokemon .............................

Jetrell Fo said:

It's a Pokemon .............................

Specifically, it's a Mew. Mew is the ancestor of all Pokemon.

Bingowings said:

As for not being sure what I'm referring to ask a Mormon. A physical being on another planet would match most people's definition of an extraterrestrial intelligence.

 Ah, I see what you are referring to.  Yes, to most God is an ethereal everywhere yet no where being, which is far more logical I suppose ;)  Thanks for including the link, as it explains my position so well I need not repeat it.  God lives somewhere.  Heaven is not on a cloud.  Weird, huh? (In other words, I'll never understand why non-Mormons try to portray it as weird, since no other explanation makes sense--it is the logical conclusion)

I am fascinated by your preoccupation with Kolob.  It's a matter that hardly is brought up.  I can't say I've heard the term used even once in the past several years in church.  It's not even where God resides but rather "nearest to".  I take it to be a more symbolic than literal meaning, though I'm not sure if that's a correct interpretation or not.

I wasn't myself portraying it as weird (certainly no more weird than Zeus).

I also hinted earlier that the possibility of a God evolving from the universe he creates appeals to me personally, which sort of ties in with some ideas that some Mormons share.

In terms of Warb's terminology for speculations of a non-orthodox fashion there is only a superficial link. Considering if the creator being resides on a particular planet orbiting a particular star is a significantly different undertaking to wondering if someone with links to the upper reaches of government might kill thousands to make billions.

One takes a leap of imagination and faith, the other just requires a stack of history books and a degree of cynicism.

darklordoftech said:

Jetrell Fo said:

It's a Pokemon .............................

Specifically, it's a Mew. Mew is the ancestor of all Pokemon.

 I didn't say I wanted to know what it is.

Bingowings said:

I wasn't myself portraying it as weird

 Don't worry, I didn't take it that way.  Just making the comment for any others reading this thread who haven't followed my other thread. :)

An intelligent designer akin to the Abrahamic God should be intelligent enough to know how to design and create a universe that can function self-sufficiently without Him having to intervene to make things happen/keep things running.

Saying that life can't arise naturally doesn't make the universe look designed -- it makes God look incompetent.

DuracellEnergizer said:

An intelligent designer akin to the Abrahamic God should be intelligent enough to know how to design and create a universe that can function self-sufficiently without Him having to intervene to make things happen/keep things running.

Saying that life can't arise naturally doesn't make the universe look designed -- it makes God look incompetent.

Just because you have the ability to make Pizza it doesn't follow that cheese on toast is now out of bounds.

God's hand being visible to the faithful may be part of the design. Such a designer is not the literal interpretation of God shown as widely believed to be in the poll I linked to earlier.

The Gnostics believed that the 'signs' of God are a form of graffiti, scrawled on the material universe (the creation of a false God) by the true spiritual God of Christ.

It reads, "Hello Sweetie x"

Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:

I've always been curious why monotheist religions assume that God means well?

The same reason that people assume that parents mean well.

*sigh*  I am really sick and tired of all the attacks and ridicule of those that believe in God.