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The Coarse / 16mm grain plate covers the DNR much better as I could still see it in the fine / 35mm version.
I don't know how you are applying the plates but is it possible to double up the 35 mm one?
Here you are!
Fine grain test: http://www.sendspace.com/file/d6zq1h
Coarse grain test: http://www.sendspace.com/file/nqhrce
Opinions from anybody are welcome!
Sadly my projects are lost due to an HDD crash… 😦 | [Fundamental Collection] thread | blog.spoRv.com | fan preservation forum: fanres.com
The Coarse / 16mm grain plate covers the DNR much better as I could still see it in the fine / 35mm version.
I don't know how you are applying the plates but is it possible to double up the 35 mm one?
The coarse grain (that I called 16mm just to remember...) is actually the 35mm downscaled...
I'm aware that the "16mm" grain covers better the DNR, but it seems to me a little bit too coarse... maybe I should try something in the middle.
Sadly my projects are lost due to an HDD crash… 😦 | [Fundamental Collection] thread | blog.spoRv.com | fan preservation forum: fanres.com
_,,,^..^,,,_ said:
The coarse grain (that I called 16mm just to remember...) is actually the 35mm downscaled...
I'm aware that the "16mm" grain covers better the DNR, but it seems to me a little bit too coarse... maybe I should try something in the middle.
Yes, that 16mm grain is far too much, not a good look IMHO. The 35mm grain, while much better than the 16mm grain, has the problem that it doesn't do enough to hide the DNRed nature of the UHE.
You should do a test with grain double the size of the 35mm grain you just used if you can, see how it looks.
_,,,^..^,,,_ said:
The coarse grain (that I called 16mm just to remember...) is actually the 35mm downscaled...
I'm aware that the "16mm" grain covers better the DNR, but it seems to me a little bit too coarse... maybe I should try something in the middle.
I agree. Way to coarse.
Can you double up the 35mm grain plate?
It might help you hit the middle ground, but it depends on what method you are applying it. I use Adobe Premiere / After Effects. From previous posts you seem to use AVISynth or other Free software which I have very limited knowlege of. Especially in overlaying a grain plate.
Out of interest is there any way you can copy detail from on source (MPEG 2 Blu ray) and overlay it on another (UHE Blu) like you colour match scripts?
In my eyes the main problem with the MPEG 2 Blu is the compression artifacts because the way MPEG 2 handles the grain, which is why you are trying the overlay film grain method I suppose.
It now looks like a Lowry title of AAWWIL you can see the DNR under non period grain
Sorry, I mistyped "downscaled"... indeed, it was UPscaled, and less than double size... so, now I'm testing a new grain that is between the 35mm and the "16mm" recreated grain; I'll post results ASAP.
CSchmidlapp said:
Out of interest is there any way you can copy detail from on source (MPEG 2 Blu ray) and overlay it on another (UHE Blu) like you colour match scripts?
AFAIK, is not possible... but I will be more than happy to be wrong about it!!!
@dvdmike: what is AAWWIL?
Sadly my projects are lost due to an HDD crash… 😦 | [Fundamental Collection] thread | blog.spoRv.com | fan preservation forum: fanres.com
New grain test: http://www.sendspace.com/file/9zikzt
(between 35mm and "16mm" grain plates)
Sadly my projects are lost due to an HDD crash… 😦 | [Fundamental Collection] thread | blog.spoRv.com | fan preservation forum: fanres.com
_,,,^..^,,,_ said:
Sorry, I mistyped "downscaled"... indeed, it was UPscaled, and less than double size... so, now I'm testing a new grain that is between the 35mm and the "16mm" recreated grain; I'll post results ASAP.
CSchmidlapp said:
Out of interest is there any way you can copy detail from on source (MPEG 2 Blu ray) and overlay it on another (UHE Blu) like you colour match scripts?
AFAIK, is not possible... but I will be more than happy to be wrong about it!!!
@dvdmike: what is AAWWIL?
American Werewolf
Actually, An American Werewolf in London is AAWIL... (^^,)
Sure, we all know that it will be impossible to restore the UHE, but at least with some grain slapped onto it, it's a bit more bearable... or not?!?
Sadly my projects are lost due to an HDD crash… 😦 | [Fundamental Collection] thread | blog.spoRv.com | fan preservation forum: fanres.com
I do not see the point if we have the MPEG release, Doing a colour like for JP using the DNR 3d versions colours sure, as that makes a better release.
But I do not see the reason for this
Even if I love MPEG2 - and I'm sure you know it - AFAIK this one is ridden by many compression artifacts, while the UHE is DNR'ed a lot... neither is perfect, and probably I'll end to choose the MPEG2 even if has those artifacts; but, as the UHE has more details and no compression problems, and *IF* a grain plate overlay could make it more watchable, ***MAYBE*** the final result could be preferable by some... that's it!
I don't plan to do a restoration now, but maybe some users who watched the test clips could think if it will be an interesting thing to do, or simply a waste of time...
At the end, is just an "excercise of style" to understand if the grain plate technique could improve a bit a DNR'ed video... I thought also to test it with the MPEG2 version, to see if it could mask a bit the compression artifacts... what do you think?
Sadly my projects are lost due to an HDD crash… 😦 | [Fundamental Collection] thread | blog.spoRv.com | fan preservation forum: fanres.com
_,,,^..^,,,_ said:
Even if I love MPEG2 - and I'm sure you know it - AFAIK this one is ridden by many compression artifacts, while the UHE is DNR'ed a lot... neither is perfect, and probably I'll end to choose the MPEG2 even if has those artifacts; but, as the UHE has more details and no compression problems, and *IF* a grain plate overlay could make it more watchable, ***MAYBE*** the final result could be preferable by some... that's it!
The UHE doesn't have more details, they've been mostly scrubbed away by the DNR to the extent that there is little to no fine detail at all. It looks like it has had some sharpening too, so some edges appear more defined, but its mostly horrid and artificial. The original Blu-Ray may well have some compression artifacts, but it looks much more like the film it should.
I don't plan to do a restoration now, but maybe some users who watched the test clips could think if it will be an interesting thing to do, or simply a waste of time...
Using grain plates might be useful for adding short, upscaled or heavily DNR'ed individual shots into a preservation that has an overall higher quality source as a basis, but I don't think its good as a means of pretending to restore detail for an entire film to 'trick' the viewers' mind. To my eyes it just appears to be the same DNR-afflicted mess that it always was with loads of grain applied. Skin tones and clothing are still lacking the texture they should. I don't think its the way to go, at least, not in this case.
At the end, is just an "excercise of style" to understand if the grain plate technique could improve a bit a DNR'ed video... I thought also to test it with the MPEG2 version, to see if it could mask a bit the compression artifacts... what do you think?
I don't think adding more grain to a source that already has its own inherent grain would be a wise idea. I haven't seen either Blu-Ray in ages, but I don't remember the MPEG-II compression really being that bad?
You are right, the MPEG2 is not that bad; and yes, the DNR has scrubbed a lot of details in the UHE; but I wanted to make these tests, I've done them, and here I'd like to hear what you think about them... so I will make good use of your tips, as usual, you know it!
But maybe I derailed the discussion too much, talking about this grain plate technique... Should I start a new thread?
Sadly my projects are lost due to an HDD crash… 😦 | [Fundamental Collection] thread | blog.spoRv.com | fan preservation forum: fanres.com
_,,,^..^,,,_ said:
Even if I love MPEG2 - and I'm sure you know it - AFAIK this one is ridden by many compression artifacts, while the UHE is DNR'ed a lot... neither is perfect, and probably I'll end to choose the MPEG2 even if has those artifacts; but, as the UHE has more details and no compression problems, and *IF* a grain plate overlay could make it more watchable, ***MAYBE*** the final result could be preferable by some... that's it!
I don't plan to do a restoration now, but maybe some users who watched the test clips could think if it will be an interesting thing to do, or simply a waste of time...
At the end, is just an "excercise of style" to understand if the grain plate technique could improve a bit a DNR'ed video... I thought also to test it with the MPEG2 version, to see if it could mask a bit the compression artifacts... what do you think?
Ridden is a stretch it is not that bad
Dale Grahn on Timing His First Feature - “Predator” (1987)
https://vimeo.com/59267577
new format for me
Predator VHD video disc
http://cinephobic.blogspot.hr/2014/08/predator-vhd-video-disc.html
http://disclord.tripod.com/vhddiscworld/id7.html
if someone want it…
http://www.ebay.com/itm/VHD-Predator-Arnold-Schwarzenegger-JAPAN-IMPORT-Video-disc-/281918100767
I don’t know of anyone here who actually owns a VHD player. (It would be great if someone did for those 3D releases yet to grace Blu Ray.) Predator would likely be the same video master used for LD releases at the time.
Where were you in '77?
Colors surely is not correct from how it really looks (too dark) but with little correcting it can looks very nice and unique. I mean if there is interest for regrading and use corrected images as base, but not for now because 30 anniversary is very near and maybe proper 4K BD will be released.
35mm Film Cells
These first three is from trailer
http://i.imgur.com/ew2Napj.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/bv4TkYq.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ZMqk521.jpg
http://ebid.s3.amazonaws.com/upload_big/6/3/6/1400151080-28215-23.jpg
http://ebid.s3.amazonaws.com/upload_big/5/0/5/1400151076-28215-19.jpg
http://ebid.s3.amazonaws.com/upload_big/7/8/9/1400151079-28215-22.jpg
http://ebid.s3.amazonaws.com/upload_big/9/1/6/1400151074-28215-17.jpg
http://ebid.s3.amazonaws.com/upload_big/3/9/0/1400151078-28215-21.jpg
Original 35mm Movie Film Trailer
http://i.imgur.com/3nuJUcM.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/h6MlZxX.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/LzCEhss.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/AfwZxKH.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/YN9fELh.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/yLWBSmr.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/m0Q8xbt.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/DB6fMnY.jpg
Super 8
http://passionesuper8.blogspot.hr/search?q=predator
If there is any film cells upped over any other site please put them here.
I recorded an HDTV 1080p broadcast of this earlier tonight. If there’s any interest, I could upload a sample for people to check if it’s sourced from an alternate master…
“Logic is the battlefield of adulthood.”
Can you make few screenshots comparison with BD MPEG-2 or just make same screenshots which is posted over http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Predator-Blu-ray/316/#Screenshots?
Can you make few screenshots comparison with BD MPEG-2 or just make same screenshots which is posted over http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Predator-Blu-ray/316/#Screenshots?
I’ll make the same screenshots as the ones posted at the blu-ray site.
“Logic is the battlefield of adulthood.”
Can you make few screenshots comparison with BD MPEG-2 or just make same screenshots which is posted over http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Predator-Blu-ray/316/#Screenshots?
I’ll make the same screenshots as the ones posted at the blu-ray site.
Would it be possible for you to post this one as well? From what I’ve seen, this is one of the gross appearances of wax face.
From the UHE:
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/predatornew03.jpg
From the MPEG-2:
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/predatorold03.jpg
Would it be possible for you to post this one as well? From what I’ve seen, this is one of the gross appearances of wax face.
From the UHE:
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/predatornew03.jpgFrom the MPEG-2:
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/predatorold03.jpg
No problem. I’ll get them up on here asap. In the meantime, just from looking at those particular stills and some on the Blu-Ray site against my recording, I can already confirm that it’s much closer to the MPEG-2 than the “waxworks” UHE but it’s brighter than either of them. It looks pretty grainy to me and there’s a number of scratches and flecks for that matter too.
You’ll be able to judge for yourselves soon enough.
Just to be sure, do you really prefer stills over a video sample?
“Logic is the battlefield of adulthood.”
Would it be possible for you to post this one as well? From what I’ve seen, this is one of the gross appearances of wax face.
From the UHE:
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/predatornew03.jpgFrom the MPEG-2:
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/predatorold03.jpgNo problem. I’ll get them up on here asap. In the meantime, just from looking at those particular stills and some on the Blu-Ray site against my recording, I can already confirm that it’s much closer to the MPEG-2 than the “waxworks” UHE but it’s brighter than either of them. It looks pretty grainy to me and there’s a number of scratches and flecks for that matter too.
You’ll be able to judge for yourselves soon enough.
Just to be sure, do you really prefer stills over a video sample?
I hate to be cliched, but I prefer whatever method is easiest for you.
This is one fan project Im really interested in. The one question I have is, how do you know where each release was master from? I see people mentioning it all the time, but is there a resource that tells you what each release is mastered from?