Ryan McAvoy said:
OBI-WAN37 said:
Ryan McAvoy said:
CO said:
Wolfman said:
TV's Frink said:
So is the OP gone for good? I find his brand of crazy rather entertaining.
He's headed back to the safety of TFN. Spending his time in....The prequel Trilogy forum where everything is awesome !
I just ventured back to TFN today just to see how crazy that place has gotten and I was banned on my first thread: "At what moment did you realize you didn't like the PT?"
I should have called it, "The Prequels are great, tell me why you love them!" And I guarantee it wouldnt have been locked.
For me, the exact moment it changed from a youth spent dreaming of how great the prequels were sure to be, then gripping the cinema seat arms in rapt excitement about what I was about to witness...
...changed to a sick feeling in my stomach at about 28 seconds into TPM when the Star Wars logo came up and it was the wrong shade of yellow. The first thing that gave me the worrying feeling that the quality control switch for the new films might not be in the 'on' postion.
btw While googling SW the tother day and I stumbled onto a TFN thread about how "People are stupid who think there is a lot of CGI in the PT and there is actually loads of physical models/props etc" (Or something along those lines). It was page after page of posted photos of actors/crew standing around on green/blue screen stages that happened to also feature some real element somewhere. The phrase "Grasping at straws" sprung to mind.
"Grasping at straws"? Seriously? On the first page you see tons of models. To quote my previous post "you can see a model AT-TE in the thread I linked, not to mention models of Mustafar, Naboo Royal Cruiser, a HUGE miniature city of Mois Eisley,the streets of Coruscant, that thing in the second picture down, the huge Geonosian arena, the corridors of the Jedi temple, the huts of the tusken raiders, the podracers, naboo, Kamino, the place where Anakin and Obi-Wan fought Count Dooku, the Trade Federation interior, life-size Anakin's podracer, some different costumes for the aliens on Mustafar, the Podracer stadium, the AAT, Feluccia, the hanger in the Invisible Hand, the Jedi Temple, a life-size Naboo Starfighter, C-3PO half-built, what seems to be half of a life-size podracer for Sebulba, several places where Anakin and Obi-Wan fought eachother, that place on Mustafar where Anakin murdered all those aliens, and if you check in the next link I give they actually used a lot of locations too, and this is probably only a fraction of the stuff they actually used."
Yeah the prequel trilogy had tons of models. And just as many locations as Episodes IV-VI as well, if you check the following link. Just look at how many locations were used for Episodes I-III compared to Episodes IV-VI; the amount is the same. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Star_Wars_filming_locations It even says here on the 11th block down on the list of locations if you read the description next to Mount Etna that they filmed a real volcano in Episode III for Mustafar, that stuff about the prequels using too much CGI is mostly false.
I've seen all the behind-the-scenes PT stuff just like everyone. I know how much was built and how much wasn't. If you mean page 1 of this thread...
http://boards.theforce.net/threads/practical-effects-in-the-prequels-sets-pictures-models-etc.50017310/
...I was saying that "Grasping at straws" would be like posting the following photos in support of your argument...
^ One model (Debatable if it was even used in the finished shots), other 99% of the shot to be CGIed in later.
*OBI37edit: how do you know Lucas didn't use other models for this scene, like spider-droids and such, and how do you even know that model wasn't used in the actual footage?
^ CGI people and CGI Corusscant e.g. 60-70% of the frame CGIed in later.
*OBI37edit: I'm not sure but I think those could well have been the only buildings even shown in the movie for the most part in that scene when that bounty hunter crashed or whatever, I don't see how they would need to build any more to show the speeder crash.
^ Other 80% of Coruscant CGIed in later.
*Edit by me (OBI-WAN37): it would have cost a fortune to build all of coruscant, do you realize how much they pass by in the speeders, and these aren't even necessarily all the models they used in the trilogy.
^ Tiny model built to woefully substitute a real (Expensive) set. Anakin and Padme to be CGIed in later along with a host of CGI creatures.
*OBI37edit: YOU are grasping at straws now, very few sets are that large, if any, given the scale, and of course the creatures would be CGI'd in later, there's no way a human could portray them even with the best makeup.
^ Other 70% of Coruscant CGIed in later.
*OBI37edit: Can't have models for everything
^ Other 70% of shot CGIed in later.
*OBI37edit: Building a background for that at that angle would have destroyed their budget, regardless of how much money they had, although I'll give you the fact that I don't know why a lot of the stuff at the front isn't modeled.
^ Other 90% of shot CGIed in later (Plus a thousand CGI people).
*Obi37edit: I'll give you the fact that they could have substituted the CGI environment with a real one (I don't know much about special effects, I don't really know), but the people are just like the Geonosian creatures: too un-humanoid to be portrayed by a human, even with makeup.
^ I'm not even gonna comment.
*OBI37edit: The background being a HUGE empty space enclosed by very distant walls, it would cost all the money on Earth to make a legitamate scale background for that scene, and most films would've CGI'd that scene instead of using a model, this is where it just comes down to preference, and I personally don't care that they used CGI instead of a model.
^ Other 90% of shot and people to be CGIed in later.
*OBI37edit: I'll admit I don't even know where that is.
^ Seriously you are cracking me up here.
*OBI37edit: Most films today would have CGI'd that for budeget reasons, and being Star Wars with so many different scenes it would cost too much to have sooo many studios for absolutely everything.
^ Other 50% of the shot and CGI droids added later.
*OBI37edit: CGI was probably the only way to go with that scene, the hallway would be too deep and expensive otherwise, most movies would have used CGI in this scene for the same reason of keeping expenses reasonable, and you can't have real moving droids, unless you want to have poor puppet-work.
I could go on but like I said "Clutching at straws".
btw in that same page these two photos are posted as "evidence" that the OT was no different...
^ Universally derided as the worst shot in ROTJ. It sticks out like a sore thumb and only damages your argument. I'm one of ROTJ's biggest fans over here but I can admit that shot stank and would have been better had it not been cheated on a Bluescreen. Clearly Lucas with eyesight decaying thought this was the way of the future.
^ Real people, sitting on a real prop, optically composited over real footage, so no, not really comparable. Besides, there was literally no other way this could be achieved at the time and since the sequence runs at about a gazillion miles an hour nobody notices any flaws (Not me anyway). But you'd have to be insane to use the same technique to film slow shots that could easily be achieved with practical photography... oh wait GL did on the PT in almost every shot.
Here is a little example...
^ ESB. Everything is real, real people, real ships, real props on location. Looks f*ckin' stunning!
^ ESB. Matte painting done later of the same base (The 80s equivalent of CGI). Looks 1000 times less convincing, which is why Adywan has reshot this one.
Fortunately every oportunity was taken in the OT to shoot it live, in camera and 100% for real (So that last shot is a rare exception). The exact opposite was true for the PT. If it could be CGIed in for less money than it cost to build it... it was.
Okay, so I've posted edits embedded in your quotes under each image for each criticism you make. Most of my argument centers around the fact that given the huge amount of locations they used in the prequel trilogy (unlike the original trilogy), even with the budget of a star wars movie I'm guessing it would have cost way too much to model absolutely everything, and also, you said concerning blue-screening in the time of the original trilogy, "there was literally no other way this could be achieved at the time" the same goes for lots of stuff you criticize in the prequel trilogy: aliens with long necks and completely different anatomy from humans that make it literally impossible for actors to portray even with the best makeup. You seem to be throwing absolutely everything that even barely qualifies as an argument at me, however I will admit that you do make a couple of good points. Regardless, the prequel trilogy, with or without too much CGI, are fantastic films.
