Sick of Star Wars Prequel bashing.... — Page 6

Ryan McAvoy said:

When Puzo died he and Coppola were planning on a 4th film that would have told Vito's long missing backstory between the end of GF2 and the start of GF1, so this analogy doesn't totally work.

 And if they decided to do that, I believe it would have been too much just like the SW PT was too much with 3 movies.

Godfather II told a nice backstory of Vito Corleone, and that was enough to wet the appetite to the viewer.  Lets just say for the sake of argument, Coppola/Puzo would have done a WHOLE trilogy of Vito Corleone like the Prequels, would anyone be that interested except a fringe base of Godfather fans who want to know everything about that world?

My point is this is what happened with the PT, as too much was too much, and you limited your audience.  I loved the OT like no other set of movies as a kid, and yes I was interested in how Darth Vader came to be, but I never wanted 3 movies of it!  And as for the Clone Wars, how much could you do of them where that would be anymore interesting? 

These are all cool plot points on paper, but when made into a trilogy, it just doesn't have the heart the OT had, simply because you are framing a trilogy off of 'interesting' plot points, and getting away from what made the OT great:  Luke, Leia and Han.

Now of course there are some fans who loved the PT, and of course there are some fans who wanted the PT like nothing else, but there were also fans like me who weren't so crazy about it, and wanted the ST (when Hamill, Fisher, and Ford were still young) as that was the story I loved.

That is why the fanbase is split, and its just natural that you will get fans who love it, fans who are so-so on it, and fans who hate it, simply because its a different animal then the OT.

skyjedi2005 said:

To me the thing was with II and III we were supposed to like and sympathize with Anakin.  It would be like losing a member of our family like Rick M said.

It should have been about choices and the slow seduction to evil by slowly making him make compromises which ultimately undermine the person he once was.  But he never really was that noble idealized individual  we thought he was, it was all lies by Obi Wan to train Luke to be a weapon to destroy his own father.

Based on the poor way the prequels came out i believe Anakin in Episode III the Jedi are Evil.  Obi Wan is the most vile and evil person imaginable and so is Yoda. 

Luke is just a pawn in their quest to defeat the Sith and Palpatine and cover up their failings. 

Had Luke known the truth he would have no more joined the sith than the jedi maybe he would have learned the force  and wiped both of them out as they were both clearly evil and manipulative in seeking their own ends.

Both Sects of the same religious dogmatism and clearly both placed themselves above people.

This is why I don't adhere to the principle of canon -- if I had to accept every aspect of any given fictional universe as "real", I'd never be able to like or enjoy any of them at all.

So is the OP gone for good?  I find his brand of crazy rather entertaining.

Tyrphanax said:

Ryan McAvoy said:

CO said:

I always thought the Prequels should have been 1 movie, and I think it would have been alot more accepted among the SW fanbase.  Coppola was able to tell Vito Corleone's backstory in one movie, why did we need 3 movies to see the backstory of Anakin Skywalker other then to cash in on the SW name?

If Lucas would have done 1 Prequel movie, he could have crafted a 3 hour no holds barred movie where it would have been all red meat to the fans, and we wouldn't have to deal with pointless exposition that makes the trilogy move like molasses sometimes.  

When Puzo died he and Coppola were planning on a 4th film that would have told Vito's long missing backstory between the end of GF2 and the start of GF1, so this analogy doesn't totally work.

I agree it could have been covered in one movie but in a galaxy as big as SW 3 movies should have still been exciting and fast paced. Obi Wan was barely in TPM and Anakin wasn't developed at all either. Lucas could have stuffed all 3 of the PT with exciting adventures we never saw (The "Nest of Gundarks"? or "That business on Cato Nemoidia"?) or call me crazy but he could have shown us what happened in the bloody CLONE WARS?!?

Seeing the Clone Wars was the main reason I bought cinema tickets to those films. But all we got was Yoda saying they'd started in AOTC, one battle above Coruscant in ROTS, a couple of montages and then they were over. What happened to 'Episode II.5: The Clone Wars' Where we spent 2 hours having fun and beginning to actually like our two heroes Anakin and Obi-Wan?

 You mean this and this?

I've only seen the first season of the proper show (and it's cool), but the first/micro series is really what we should have gotten in the PT. The bolded line is a perfect way to describe it, actually.

TV's Frink said:

So is the OP gone for good?  I find his brand of crazy rather entertaining.

 He's headed back to the safety of TFN. Spending his time in....The prequel Trilogy forum where everything is awesome !

DominicCobb said:

I've only seen the first season of the proper show (and it's cool), but the first/micro series is really what we should have gotten in the PT. The bolded line is a perfect way to describe it, actually.

 I watched the micro series and enjoyed it,....used to watch it with my son (who loved SW back then, but now thinks it's nerdy),....I liked it's quirky style and because the episodes were short, there seemed to be no fat in the episodes,....just meat

I tried to watch the CG episodes but I couldn't really enjoy them,....just didn't grab me.....don't expect too much with the Rebels series

J

Wolfman said:

TV's Frink said:

So is the OP gone for good?  I find his brand of crazy rather entertaining.

 He's headed back to the safety of TFN. Spending his time in....The prequel Trilogy forum where everything is awesome !

 I just ventured back to TFN today just to see how crazy that place has gotten and I was banned on my first thread: "At what moment did you realize you didn't like the PT?"

I should have called it, "The Prequels are great, tell me why you love them!"  And I guarantee it wouldnt have been locked.

Obi-Wan37, if you're really looking for an in-depth look at what's wrong with the prequel trilogy, check out the reviews at Red Letter Media.

 http://redlettermedia.com/plinkett/star-wars/star-wars-episode-1-the-phantom-menace/

These reviews articulated what I always felt about what was wrong with these moves, but couldn't put into words. They're quite lengthy, but well worth it.

There's also one (among many) nit-picky thing that's bothered me about the prequels. When the Jedi talk about their force abilities, they refer to their "powers", as if they are superpowers. In the OT, the Force gave a Jedi his "power", which I took to mean a spiritual or mystical inner strength.  But I guess all that went out the window with the introduction of midichlorians. 

Plus, I hate the overall look of the PT, with the sleek shiny ships, etc. I love the lived in look of the OT. 

Ryan McAvoy said:

CO said:

Wolfman said:

TV's Frink said:

So is the OP gone for good?  I find his brand of crazy rather entertaining.

 He's headed back to the safety of TFN. Spending his time in....The prequel Trilogy forum where everything is awesome !

 I just ventured back to TFN today just to see how crazy that place has gotten and I was banned on my first thread: "At what moment did you realize you didn't like the PT?"

I should have called it, "The Prequels are great, tell me why you love them!"  And I guarantee it wouldnt have been locked.

 For me, the exact moment it changed from a youth spent dreaming of how great the prequels were sure to be, then gripping the cinema seat arms in rapt excitement about what I was about to witness...

...changed to a sick feeling in my stomach at about 28 seconds into TPM when the Star Wars logo came up and it was the wrong shade of yellow. The first thing that gave me the worrying feeling that the quality control switch for the new films might not be in the 'on' postion.

btw While googling SW the tother day and I stumbled onto a TFN thread about how "People are stupid who think there is a lot of CGI in the PT and there is actually loads of physical models/props etc" (Or something along those lines). It was page after page of posted photos of actors/crew standing around on green/blue screen stages that happened to also feature some real element somewhere. The phrase "Grasping at straws" sprung to mind.

 "Grasping at straws"? Seriously? On the first page you see tons of models. To quote my previous post "you can see a model AT-TE in the thread I linked, not to mention models of Mustafar, Naboo Royal Cruiser, a HUGE miniature city of Mois Eisley,the streets of Coruscant, that thing in the second picture down, the huge Geonosian arena, the corridors of the Jedi temple, the huts of the tusken raiders, the podracers, naboo, Kamino, the place where Anakin and Obi-Wan fought Count Dooku, the Trade Federation interior, life-size Anakin's podracer, some different costumes for the aliens on Mustafar, the Podracer stadium, the AAT, Feluccia, the hanger in the Invisible Hand, the Jedi Temple, a life-size Naboo Starfighter, C-3PO half-built, what seems to be half of a life-size podracer for Sebulba, several places where Anakin and Obi-Wan fought eachother, that place on Mustafar where Anakin murdered all those aliens, and if you check in the next link I give they actually used a lot of locations too, and this is probably only a fraction of the stuff they actually used."

Yeah the prequel trilogy had tons of models. And just as many locations as Episodes IV-VI as well, if you check the following link.  Just look at how many locations were used for Episodes I-III compared to Episodes IV-VI; the amount is the same. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Star_Wars_filming_locations It even says here on the 11th block down on the list of locations if you read the description next to Mount Etna that they filmed a real volcano in Episode III for Mustafar, that stuff about the prequels using too much CGI is mostly false.

CO said:

Wolfman said:

TV's Frink said:

So is the OP gone for good?  I find his brand of crazy rather entertaining.

 He's headed back to the safety of TFN. Spending his time in....The prequel Trilogy forum where everything is awesome !

 I just ventured back to TFN today just to see how crazy that place has gotten and I was banned on my first thread: "At what moment did you realize you didn't like the PT?"

I should have called it, "The Prequels are great, tell me why you love them!"  And I guarantee it wouldnt have been locked.

 Well, someone posted a topic on the prequel trilogy subforum (not the original trilogy subforum) claiming that the prequels were the greatest trilogy ever filmed, and just for that the thread got locked just because it implies that the prequels were superior to the originals and it would probably have caused too much of a flame war. And besides, why would you even post that on the prequel trilogy sub-forum? That's just trolling, of course it would get locked.

lightspeed2112 said:

Obi-Wan37, if you're really looking for an in-depth look at what's wrong with the prequel trilogy, check out the reviews at Red Letter Media.

 http://redlettermedia.com/plinkett/star-wars/star-wars-episode-1-the-phantom-menace/

These reviews articulated what I always felt about what was wrong with these moves, but couldn't put into words. They're quite lengthy, but well worth it.

 Those reviews are far too dark, and besides, whenever reviewers like that criticize the prequels, they never note anything positive about the films, and when they do, it's always along the lines of "sure, this was okay, but this was awful", when in truth the thing that was "okay" was actually awesome and the thing that was awful was actually just a small flaw. For example a prequel-hater might say, "sure the action was okay, but the acting was awful", when in truth the action was fantastic and the acting wasn't bad enough to outweigh the other positive things, like the very well-done tragedy and the great amount of Jedi and a look at how things were before Palpatine took over.

Anchorhead said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

This is why I don't adhere to the principle of canon -- if I had to accept every aspect of any given fictional universe as "real", I'd never be able to like or enjoy any of them at all.

 Agreed.  Strongly.  That's why I have Personal Canon. I follow what works and what interests me. I ignore the rest.  It's just noise.

Your statement is also why I believe the TFNers have such a hard time with all of this.  Star Wars of the 1970s was never intended to be anything other than the first story. That's been proven multiple times and is well documented.  It was presented as an open & shut story. No Original Vision, no Saga telling the rise & fall of one of the secondary members of the military.

The two sets of films simply do not work as one story.  No amount of imagination or revisionist lying can change that.  Even the pretzel logic of Lucas *genuflect* and his multiple attempts at revision haven't been able to make sense of the mess.  All he's done is create a deeply divided fan base.  A fan base that seems more often than not to be at war with the story itself. 

To borrow from John Daggett in The Dark Knight Rises;  "It didn't work, my friend".

 Well I think it worked beautifully.

lightspeed2112 said:

There's also one (among many) nit-picky thing that's bothered me about the prequels. When the Jedi talk about their force abilities, they refer to their "powers", as if they are superpowers. In the OT, the Force gave a Jedi his "power", which I took to mean a spiritual or mystical inner strength.  But I guess all that went out the window with the introduction of midichlorians. 

Plus, I hate the overall look of the PT, with the sleek shiny ships, etc. I love the lived in look of the OT. 

 Well I love the look of the prequel trilogy, and much prefer it to the look of the original trilogy, and not only is it fitting, as the former was how things were before the Emporer took over and everything was running pretty smoothly and the latter was after the Emporer took over and Rebels were basically working with what scraps they could pull together, but it looks better IMO as well. I think the reason most original trilogy fans don't like the feel of the prequel trilogy is because lots of them grew up with the look of the original trilogy, much like I prefer the look of the prequel trilogy over the look of the original trilogy not just because I think its better, but because I grew up with it. However that's not the only reason why I like the prequel trilogy. I like it because I think it's fantastic; the tragedy, the epic battles, the Jedi, the characters, everything.

OBI-WAN37 said:

lightspeed2112 said:

Obi-Wan37, if you're really looking for an in-depth look at what's wrong with the prequel trilogy, check out the reviews at Red Letter Media.

 http://redlettermedia.com/plinkett/star-wars/star-wars-episode-1-the-phantom-menace/

These reviews articulated what I always felt about what was wrong with these moves, but couldn't put into words. They're quite lengthy, but well worth it.

 Those reviews are far too dark, and besides, whenever reviewers like that criticize the prequels, they never note anything positive about the films, and when they do, it's always along the lines of "sure, this was okay, but this was awful", when in truth the thing that was "okay" was actually awesome and the thing that was awful was actually just a small flaw. For example a prequel-hater might say, "sure the action was okay, but the acting was awful", when in truth the action was fantastic and the acting wasn't bad enough to outweigh the other positive things, like the very well-done tragedy and the great amount of Jedi and a look at how things were before Palpatine took over.

 Would you mind if I ask how old you are?

OBI-WAN37 said:

lightspeed2112 said:

Obi-Wan37, if you're really looking for an in-depth look at what's wrong with the prequel trilogy, check out the reviews at Red Letter Media.

 http://redlettermedia.com/plinkett/star-wars/star-wars-episode-1-the-phantom-menace/

These reviews articulated what I always felt about what was wrong with these moves, but couldn't put into words. They're quite lengthy, but well worth it.

 Those reviews are far too dark, and besides, whenever reviewers like that criticize the prequels, they never note anything positive about the films, and when they do, it's always along the lines of "sure, this was okay, but this was awful", when in truth the thing that was "okay" was actually awesome and the thing that was awful was actually just a small flaw. For example a prequel-hater might say, "sure the action was okay, but the acting was awful", when in truth the action was fantastic and the acting wasn't bad enough to outweigh the other positive things, like the very well-done tragedy and the great amount of Jedi and a look at how things were before Palpatine took over.

What you have to remember about those reviews is that they are going for a laugh.  They are written as comedy pieces rather than unbiased reviews.  But never the less, they do point out a good majority of the flaws and how awful they really are.

What most people with your point of view seem to think that we are trying to ruin your enjoyment of the prequels.  And that is just completely untrue.  We have no problem with people enjoying those movies.  Hell, I enjoy watching them occasionally as well.  I saw them when I was a bit younger and they provide me with a bit of nostalgia.  But regardless of that, we will defend to our deaths that they are objectively poorly made films.  They may look cool, they may provide a thrill, but they lack the majority of things that made the OT not just fun, but well made films (particularly ANH and ESB).

And personally, I even disagree with your statement about the action.  The action in the prequels is quite boring and uninspired.  Is it cool to watch?  Sure, because it's a science fiction space battle, or a war with laser weapons and light sabers, but aside from the sheer amount of "stuff" on the screen during these action scenes (which some might even consider a bad thing), they really aren't great at all. 

The acting on the other hand, is awful.  And it's not necessarily the actors' faults, but rather the poor dialogue and direction, the lack of tangible environments, and the unintelligible intentions of each character.

Again, I'm glad you enjoy these movies and I respect your opinion towards them.  I can't deny that I get a kick out of watching them now and again, but I will never stop arguing that they are not only poor star wars films, but poorly made films in general.

Humby said:

OBI-WAN37 said:

lightspeed2112 said:

Obi-Wan37, if you're really looking for an in-depth look at what's wrong with the prequel trilogy, check out the reviews at Red Letter Media.

 http://redlettermedia.com/plinkett/star-wars/star-wars-episode-1-the-phantom-menace/

These reviews articulated what I always felt about what was wrong with these moves, but couldn't put into words. They're quite lengthy, but well worth it.

 Those reviews are far too dark, and besides, whenever reviewers like that criticize the prequels, they never note anything positive about the films, and when they do, it's always along the lines of "sure, this was okay, but this was awful", when in truth the thing that was "okay" was actually awesome and the thing that was awful was actually just a small flaw. For example a prequel-hater might say, "sure the action was okay, but the acting was awful", when in truth the action was fantastic and the acting wasn't bad enough to outweigh the other positive things, like the very well-done tragedy and the great amount of Jedi and a look at how things were before Palpatine took over.

What you have to remember about those reviews is that they are going for a laugh.  They are written as comedy pieces rather than unbiased reviews.  But never the less, they do point out a good majority of the flaws and how awful they really are.

What most people with your point of view seem to think that we are trying to ruin your enjoyment of the prequels.  And that is just completely untrue.  We have no problem with people enjoying those movies.  Hell, I enjoy watching them occasionally as well.  I saw them when I was a bit younger and they provide me with a bit of nostalgia.  But regardless of that, we will defend to our deaths that they are objectively poorly made films.  They may look cool, they may provide a thrill, but they lack the majority of things that made the OT not just fun, but well made films (particularly ANH and ESB).

And personally, I even disagree with your statement about the action.  The action in the prequels is quite boring and uninspired.  Is it cool to watch?  Sure, because it's a science fiction space battle, or a war with laser weapons and light sabers, but aside from the sheer amount of "stuff" on the screen during these action scenes (which some might even consider a bad thing), they really aren't great at all. 

The acting on the other hand, is awful.  And it's not necessarily the actors' faults, but rather the poor dialogue and direction, the lack of tangible environments, and the unintelligible intentions of each character.

Again, I'm glad you enjoy these movies and I respect your opinion towards them.  I can't deny that I get a kick out of watching them now and again, but I will never stop arguing that they are not only poor star wars films, but poorly made films in general.

 Well at least you were polite, unlike a lot of people here.