The spanking nuns are as bad as the beating nuns, the swearing nuns, the nude biker nun, and the ground nunchuck.
This one is the %20.
In all seriousness, I'd like to ask...
What is the point of Religion?
I've never understood what the practical benefit is of believing in something that by default has no proof behind it (That's what faith is). I'd be genuinely interested in how and what it adds to life that many consider it worth spending time, effort and money on?
VIZ TOP TIPS! - PARENTS. Impress your children by showing them a floppy disk and telling them it’s a 3D model of a save icon.
That's a good question, Ryan, and one that I will do my best to answer this evening.
Saying that it has no proof is a gross misrepresentation though. There doesn't seem to be much evidence against it though. If you can give the supposed evidence against it before the end of the day, I will try to give counter-evidence/arguments.
Even if I am not very religious, I would say one of the most important arguments pro any sort of religion: Hope.
One of the moste things Religions are providing is "hope".
Hope, that next live is better.
Hope, that there is some meaning in life.
Hope, that the "rightous men" will benefit from living their "rightous life". (What is rightous is defined by the religion in question.)
Hope, that the people, which are abusing other people just for their own benefit in this world will get punished in the next one.
"I kill Gandalf." - Igor, Dork Tower
RicOlie_2 said:
That's a good question, Ryan, and one that I will do my best to answer this evening.
Saying that it has no proof is a gross misrepresentation though. There doesn't seem to be much evidence against it though. If you can give the supposed evidence against it before the end of the day, I will try to give counter-evidence/arguments.
I'd hardly call saying "believing in something that by default has no proof behind it (That's what faith is" is a "gross misrepresentation" considering the Oxford English Dictionary offers the following definition of 'Faith'...
"strong belief in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual conviction rather than proof"
But for the sake of answering my earlier question properly, lets assume we all agree there is no proof for God and there is no proof for the absence of God either.
e.g. MrBrown says above, that the feelings of hope that belief in the afterlife gives, has benefits to a life lived here on earth. Wether there is or is not an afterlife is immaterial to this question or answer.
I can see how that would work for some people. But for me that's just self-dellusion which doesn't give me any hope or moral strength.
VIZ TOP TIPS! - PARENTS. Impress your children by showing them a floppy disk and telling them it’s a 3D model of a save icon.
As there is no proof of the existence or non-existence of any God or Gods it's probably better to act as if there aren't any or that they all exist (in which case you can't satisfy them all).
That way you can live your life to it's fullest.
Being nice because you want to rather than because someone up there or in there or down there or over there tells you to.
Not putting off for the next life things you can do today.
Generally speaking there are very few religions that allow this sort of freedom.
Most people don't chose their religion they are born to it but there is an element of choice in staying there so regardless of if choose a religion from the pile or stick to the faith of your native environment you are in an organisation with a prescribed world view. With rules and a price to pay in terms of commitment of time, resources, emotion etc.
It's prepackaged, no assembly is required.
Despite being attracted to some world religions and appreciating the art, the ceremonial and architectural trapping etc I personally prefer to play life by ear.
If there is a supernatural layer to existence I imagine if it wanted me to be so constricted it wouldn't offer me so much choice and variety.
MrBrown said:
Even if I am not very religious, I would say one of the most important arguments pro any sort of religion: Hope.
One of the moste things Religions are providing is "hope".
Hope, that next live is better.
Hope, that there is some meaning in life.
Hope, that the "rightous men" will benefit from living their "rightous life". (What is rightous is defined by the religion in question.)
Hope, that the people, which are abusing other people just for their own benefit in this world will get punished in the next one.
Some of the most hopeful people I've met are atheists. People with real hope this world can be better than it is.
In fact, people I meet with the most mind blowing despair in reality tend to be religious. Look at Fox News.
Ryan McAvoy said:
In all seriousness, I'd like to ask...
What is the point of Religion?
I've never understood what the practical benefit is of believing in something that by default has no proof behind it (That's what faith is). I'd be genuinely interested in how and what it adds to life that many consider it worth spending time, effort and money on?
When travelling in a car, I'd rather there by someone behind the wheel to steer the damn thing than for the front seat to be empty and the car to be headed on a course straight off the edge of a cliff.
Of course, this analogy applies to theism more than religion specifically.
DuracellEnergizer said:
Ryan McAvoy said:
In all seriousness, I'd like to ask...
What is the point of Religion?
I've never understood what the practical benefit is of believing in something that by default has no proof behind it (That's what faith is). I'd be genuinely interested in how and what it adds to life that many consider it worth spending time, effort and money on?
When travelling in a car, I'd rather there by someone behind the wheel to steer the damn thing than for the front seat to be empty and the car to be headed on a course straight off the edge of a cliff.
Of course, this analogy applies to theism more than religion specifically.
Of course the problem with that is that atheists or other agnostics might say that a better analogy would be the choice between driving the car, knowing where you are going, and letting someone else drive it, not knowing where they are taking you.
Picked up this free little book at the train station today. 222 pages, made by Jehovah's Witnesses. Read a little bit, interesting stuff. Maybe I'll also get around to finally reading that Bible book people are so up in arms about.
Don’t do drugs, unless you’re with me.
DuracellEnergizer said:
Ryan McAvoy said:
In all seriousness, I'd like to ask...
What is the point of Religion?
I've never understood what the practical benefit is of believing in something that by default has no proof behind it (That's what faith is). I'd be genuinely interested in how and what it adds to life that many consider it worth spending time, effort and money on?
When travelling in a car, I'd rather there by someone behind the wheel to steer the damn thing than for the front seat to be empty and the car to be headed on a course straight off the edge of a cliff.
Of course, this analogy applies to theism more than religion specifically.
Whether an athiest or a theist, the car never has anybody behind the wheel. Because, for a theist to believe that God would favour their car over anyone else's on the highway is shear vanity and the athiest believes that random chance is driving the car and nought else. But whatever you believe, the car is still going off the cliff anyway.
It's what you do while you are in the car that matters.
A theist would spend their time reading and re-reading the owners manual and trying to gleam some sort of meaning from it and building a shrine in the glove box. Occasionaly looking out the windows and disaproving of other motorists who weren't driving according to their interpretation of the highway code or were driving cars of different makes and colours (Especially the pink cars!).
The atheist would just marvel at the beautiful view out the window, stick the radio on to their favourite station and enjoy the music for as long as the journey lasted.
LOL
VIZ TOP TIPS! - PARENTS. Impress your children by showing them a floppy disk and telling them it’s a 3D model of a save icon.
Neglify said:
Picked up this free little book at the train station today. 222 pages, made by Jehovah's Witnesses. Read a little bit, interesting stuff. Maybe I'll also get around to finally reading that Bible book people are so up in arms about.
Just be aware that the Jehovah's Witnesses have a different interpretation of the Bible than just about everyone else. They believe that only 144,000 people can get to heaven or something like that. Makes you wonder why they even bother.
I suggest you don't make too quick a judgement on the Bible. Like any book, it needs to be taken in context. There are many different books in the Bible with many different genres, including histories, proverbs, hymns, allegories, prophetical works, apocalyptic works, letters, love poems, etc. so don't take everything literally, because not everything in it should be read as literal.
Ryan McAvoy said:
In all seriousness, I'd like to ask...
What is the point of Religion?
I've never understood what the practical benefit is of believing in something that by default has no proof behind it (That's what faith is). I'd be genuinely interested in how and what it adds to life that many consider it worth spending time, effort and money on?
Alright, let's assume there is no evidence either for or against religion (I think this is slightly unfair because I believe that there is evidence for my beliefs, but there is so much room for debate in that area that I will ignore that for now). So, what could possibly be good about it? I'll list some reasons in point form (the numbers have nothing to do with importance):
1. Hope: religion often provides hope in an afterlife.
2. Happiness: religion and prayer have been shown to increase happiness in multiple studies.
3. Explanation of the supernatural. This is a reason people adhere to religion, though it may not really belong in this answer.
4. Unification: this is debatable, but in theory, if everyone followed one religion there would be a lot fewer problems in the world, depending on the religion.
5. Community: by sharing beliefs and meeting every so often, communities of people are formed and people have a chance to meet with people who share their beliefs.
6. It explains the origins of the universe (science does this, but it doesn't give a very satisfactory answer).
EDIT: I forgot a big one:
7. Religion gives life meaning and purpose in a way that cannot be without religion.
I could continue were I allowed to take things as they are and not ignoring evidence for and against religion.
RicOlie_2 said:
Just be aware that the Jehovah's Witnesses have a different interpretation of the Bible than just about everyone else. They believe that only 144,000 people can get to heaven or something like that. Makes you wonder why they even bother.
I suggest you don't make too quick a judgement on the Bible. Like any book, it needs to be taken in context. There are many different books in the Bible with many different genres, including histories, proverbs, hymns, allegories, prophetical works, apocalyptic works, letters, love poems, etc. so don't take everything literally, because not everything in it should be read as literal.
Thanks. And I don't have any sort of bias against any religion or anything. When I study a faith I keep an open mind and make my own judgments based on what I'm reading.
Don’t do drugs, unless you’re with me.
I'm glad to hear it. :)
RicOlie_2 said:
Neglify said:
Picked up this free little book at the train station today. 222 pages, made by Jehovah's Witnesses. Read a little bit, interesting stuff. Maybe I'll also get around to finally reading that Bible book people are so up in arms about.
Just be aware that the Jehovah's Witnesses have a different interpretation of the Bible than just about everyone else.
You mean as opposed to the 5,000,000 other Christian sects who all interpret it the same?
And now, let's hear the other side of the argument.
RicOlie_2 said:
1. Hope: religion often provides hope in an afterlife.
There is no evidence of any existence beyond the one we're currently experimenting. If you're gonna be good, do it for the sake of it, not for some sort of reward you're going to get at the pearly gates.
Quoting Queen.... Who wants to life forever????
2. Happiness: religion and prayer have been shown to increase happiness in multiple studies.
So have done many, many opium derivatives.
3. Explanation of the supernatural.
Again, no evidence whatsoever of any "supernatural".
4. Unification: this is debatable, but in theory, if everyone followed one religion there would be a lot fewer problems in the world, depending on the religion.
And everything would be really gray and boring, which is why I'm fine with people having different ideas, opinions, and that includes religion, too. People are always going to find something to disagree on.
5. Community: by sharing beliefs and meeting every so often, communities of people are formed and people have a chance to meet with people who share their beliefs.
In theory. In practice churches are a nest for gossips in fur coats.
6. It explains the origins of the universe (science does this, but it doesn't give a very satisfactory answer).
Religion will always say one thing. [Insert message here]
Science can't be and doesn't want to be definitive. Our understanding of gravity, for example, has chanced during the centuries. Because science is not a doctrine.
I don't get the "satisfactory" part.
7. Religion gives life meaning and purpose in a way that cannot be without religion.
Not everything is supposed to have a meaning, I'm afraid. We, as humans, have this ingrained reaction to all the things we do not understand, and that is trying to give them an explanation, a meaning.
Meanings are meaningless. It's all in the gooey gray and white matter inside our boney skulls.
Hey gang. I used to be involved in this thread before, but had to exit because it got a bit heated at times. My goal when explaining my faith is simply to give my perspective that yes, I believe to be true.
I am what you would call a Christian, but honestly in this day in age I'm not sure it means what it is supposed to mean.
Most have been handling the faith so poorly that there are countries that when referring to "Christians" they simply mean "Americans"..... Clearly we have dropped the ball.
Ric, I'm going to respond to you in the best manner I can. I don't do it to debate or to win an argument, but to just give you a perspective to consider. I will not have all the answers, and will never have all the answers. No one else will either.
You said: If you're gonna be good, do it for the sake of it, not for some sort of reward you're going to get at the pearly gates
I agree with you. We should never do anything to get a reward, and that is not what true Christianity is about.
Jesus said this in the book of Matthew, chapter 6:
“Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of people, to be seen by them. Otherwise, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven. So whenever you give to the poor, don’t sound a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be applauded by people. I assure you: They’ve got their reward! But when you give to the poor, don’t let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.
So, yes there is reward for being righteous or being good. BUT, only if you do it with the mindset of not seeking reward. By doing it just to be righteous/good. God wants us to choose to be righteous because we desire to be righteous.
And on the point of no evidence of a place outside of our own. You're not wrong, or at least I have not experienced the evidence for myself yet. Some have claimed to have seen it. I can't confirm it, it's not my experience. All I can give you is my experience, and that is God has always been correct in my life, when I properly walked the path, the things God led me to believe would happen did in fact happen. That's how faith works. I see that God is good (and I use that term in non-human measurements) and tells the truth, so I trust the things I can't see yet. I haven't been to the grand canyon, but I know honest friends who have seen it and say it's beautiful, and I can trust that its there because they say so. Because I know them to be trustworthy. Of course, someone will say I'm ridiculous and that there are copious amounts of evidence for the grand canyon, but I could argue that for me the evidence isn't enough. What evidence would you have for me? A rock? I don't know it came from there. A photo with you, your wife and kids posing before it? Nah, it could be shopped. Again, you would say I'm ridiculous, but I'm not being ridiculous, I'm just in this case ignorant of truth, because we also live in an age where lies are copious, and fabrication is much easier. But maybe YOU have seen the evidence and my refusal to believe in the grand canyon is incredibly maddening to you? It's still not ridiculous if my life situation has been that of anti-exposure, and a lack of experience. My long-winded point is, we both have different sets of experiences. Those experiences have shaped how we view things. So, with that I ask, do you know everything? I don't. So, because I know I don't know everything, I have to go by what I do know, and that has been dictated by my own personal set of experiences on my journey. My experiences have dictated that God is perfect, and has been right so far in my life. So, therefore in my life all my road signs point to a place I can't see yet. But I know it's there because someone I trust told me so. Again, that's faith, but because of the source, I know that I can have that faith in God.
I don't know everything, but I try to trust the one I believe does.
You don't know everything either. I could even ask if you know half of everything, and you would probably tell me no. You couldn't know half of everything, just like I couldn't. But let's just say for the sake of discussion that you do know half of everything. But, alas, you still do not know everything, so I ask you. Is it possible that this Jesus/God/Heaven thing could exist on the other half of the stuff you haven't learned yet?
Again, not arguing. Just giving a new perspective, and I'm up for respectable conversations. I just have to exit when people get rude/angry or start barking back and forth. I've been through that, and it does no one any good. Not saying you planned on doing that. But that it has happened to me on this thread. =)
I know you said more in your original post, but I need to go milk the cat or something. =)
mrbenja0618 said:
Hey gang. I used to be involved in this thread before, but had to exit because it got a bit heated at times. My goal when explaining my faith is simply to give my perspective that yes, I believe to be true.
I am what you would call a Christian, but honestly in this day in age I'm not sure it means what it is supposed to mean.
Most have been handling the faith so poorly that there are countries that when referring to "Christians" they simply mean "Americans"..... Clearly we have dropped the ball.
Ric, I'm going to respond to you in the best manner I can. I don't do it to debate or to win an argument, but to just give you a perspective to consider. I will not have all the answers, and will never have all the answers. No one else will either.You said: If you're gonna be good, do it for the sake of it, not for some sort of reward you're going to get at the pearly gates
I agree with you. We should never do anything to get a reward, and that is not what true Christianity is about.
Jesus said this in the book of Matthew, chapter 6:“Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of people, to be seen by them. Otherwise, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven. So whenever you give to the poor, don’t sound a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be applauded by people. I assure you: They’ve got their reward! But when you give to the poor, don’t let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.
So, yes there is reward for being righteous or being good. BUT, only if you do it with the mindset of not seeking reward. By doing it just to be righteous/good. God wants us to choose to be righteous because we desire to be righteous.
And on the point of no evidence of a place outside of our own. You're not wrong, or at least I have not experienced the evidence for myself yet. Some have claimed to have seen it. I can't confirm it, it's not my experience. All I can give you is my experience, and that is God has always been correct in my life, when I properly walked the path, the things God led me to believe would happen did in fact happen. That's how faith works. I see that God is good (and I use that term in non-human measurements) and tells the truth, so I trust the things I can't see yet. I haven't been to the grand canyon, but I know honest friends who have seen it and say it's beautiful, and I can trust that its there because they say so. Because I know them to be trustworthy. Of course, someone will say I'm ridiculous and that there are copious amounts of evidence for the grand canyon, but I could argue that for me the evidence isn't enough. What evidence would you have for me? A rock? I don't know it came from there. A photo with you, your wife and kids posing before it? Nah, it could be shopped. Again, you would say I'm ridiculous, but I'm not being ridiculous, I'm just in this case ignorant of truth, because we also live in an age where lies are copious, and fabrication is much easier. But maybe YOU have seen the evidence and my refusal to believe in the grand canyon is incredibly maddening to you? It's still not ridiculous if my life situation has been that of anti-exposure, and a lack of experience. My long-winded point is, we both have different sets of experiences. Those experiences have shaped how we view things. So, with that I ask, do you know everything? I don't. So, because I know I don't know everything, I have to go by what I do know, and that has been dictated by my own personal set of experiences on my journey. My experiences have dictated that God is perfect, and has been right so far in my life. So, therefore in my life all my road signs point to a place I can't see yet. But I know it's there because someone I trust told me so. Again, that's faith, but because of the source, I know that I can have that faith in God.
I don't know everything, but I try to trust the one I believe does.
You don't know everything either. I could even ask if you know half of everything, and you would probably tell me no. You couldn't know half of everything, just like I couldn't. But let's just say for the sake of discussion that you do know half of everything. But, alas, you still do not know everything, so I ask you. Is it possible that this Jesus/God/Heaven thing could exist on the other half of the stuff you haven't learned yet?
Again, not arguing. Just giving a new perspective, and I'm up for respectable conversations. I just have to exit when people get rude/angry or start barking back and forth. I've been through that, and it does no one any good. Not saying you planned on doing that. But that it has happened to me on this thread. =)
I know you said more in your original post, but I need to go milk the cat or something. =)
And after writing that long post I realized I referenced the wrong person. Sorry Ric. This is actually for you Leonardo. Sorry guys. Got my wires crossed. :/
TheBoost said:
RicOlie_2 said:
Neglify said:
Picked up this free little book at the train station today. 222 pages, made by Jehovah's Witnesses. Read a little bit, interesting stuff. Maybe I'll also get around to finally reading that Bible book people are so up in arms about.
Just be aware that the Jehovah's Witnesses have a different interpretation of the Bible than just about everyone else.
You mean as opposed to the 5,000,000 other Christian sects who all interpret it the same?
There are numerous interpretations of the Bible, all similar in most respects, but with variations. Some variations are kind of weird, and some people take the entire Bible literally. I don't believe the Genesis creation story is literal, and do not think there is any reason for taking it that way, but many do and reject the theory of evolution because of it.
mrbenja0618 said:
mrbenja0618 said:
....
And after writing that long post I realized I referenced the wrong person. Sorry Ric. This is actually for you Leonardo. Sorry guys. Got my wires crossed. :/
No problem, I was just going to point that out. :)
mrbenja0618 said:
Jesus said this in the book of Matthew, chapter 6:“Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of people, to be seen by them. Otherwise, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven. So whenever you give to the poor, don’t sound a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be applauded by people. I assure you: They’ve got their reward! But when you give to the poor, don’t let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.
That is certainly good advice from Mr Jesus
So, yes there is reward for being righteous or being good. BUT, only if you do it with the mindset of not seeking reward. By doing it just to be righteous/good. God wants us to choose to be righteous because we desire to be righteous.
Of course, one could argue, that we do good things because we feel it's right, and because we feel good about doing them. It could also be argued (and it has) that so called "selfless" acts are also "selfish", that is, we do them because we know we will feel better about ourselves in the end. Not that it's a bad thing, after all. The result is still a good deed, and a good deed never goes unrewarded. If the person who receives it isn't what we call an asshole, he will certainly return the good deed.
[Dissertation about the Grand Canyon]
Yeah, but you really can't compare a finite hole in the ground (no matter how big) to an infinite Deity, can you? Even if you never ever ever leave the house, you're still going to somehow have the experience of a hole in the ground.
You don't know everything either. I could even ask if you know half of everything, and you would probably tell me no. You couldn't know half of everything, just like I couldn't. But let's just say for the sake of discussion that you do know half of everything. But, alas, you still do not know everything, so I ask you. Is it possible that this Jesus/God/Heaven thing could exist on the other half of the stuff you haven't learned yet?
I'll tell you, I don't know a quarter of everything. But to use a poker analogy, if I may, by looking at the cards I have in my hand, I can tell you, I'm pretty sure the rest of the deck is cards. There's not gonna be a blue whale in it.
Again, not arguing. Just giving a new perspective, and I'm up for respectable conversations. I just have to exit when people get rude/angry or start barking back and forth. I've been through that, and it does no one any good. Not saying you planned on doing that. But that it has happened to me on this thread. =)
Yeah, it's really useless when it happens.
I know you said more in your original post, but I need to go milk the cat or something. =)
I'll have some in my tea, thank you.
RicOlie_2 said:
Ryan McAvoy said:
In all seriousness, I'd like to ask...
What is the point of Religion?
I've never understood what the practical benefit is of believing in something that by default has no proof behind it (That's what faith is). I'd be genuinely interested in how and what it adds to life that many consider it worth spending time, effort and money on?
Alright, let's assume there is no evidence either for or against religion (I think this is slightly unfair because I believe that there is evidence for my beliefs, but there is so much room for debate in that area that I will ignore that for now). So, what could possibly be good about it? I'll list some reasons in point form (the numbers have nothing to do with importance):
Thanks for the response :-)
RicOlie_2 said:
1. Hope: religion often provides hope in an afterlife.
As I said above, I can totally see that hope is a postive factor. But it's always struck me as arrogant that almost all religous people imagine that they will probably go to heaven and that their loved one will definately go to heaven (I'm sure there are many exceptions, but this is the norm). It's more realistic to suppose that an eternity of hellfire awaits 99.9% of people because the chances of going through 50-100 years of life without sining in some way is unlikely. So for those prepared to flatter themselves without sin, I can see heaven must look a very appealing reward at the end.
RicOlie_2 said:
2. Happiness: religion and prayer have been shown to increase happiness in multiple studies.
Again I can see that praying to a diety to not kill your family every night must give comfort to those who delude themselves into thinking that God cares. If a massive natural disaster happens and you are the only survivor it wasn't prayer that saved you, it was just random chance. The giant incomprehensible randomness of such events must be scary to some who lack the inner strength to face them alone, so they prefer to see the hand of a guiding force. Much the same as blowing on a pair of dice might make you feel that it helps your luck.
RicOlie_2 said:
3. Explanation of the supernatural. This is a reason people adhere to religion, though it may not really belong in this answer.
There is no such thing as the supernatural and as such I do not require a God to explain it. But if one is the sort of gullible person to believe in ghosts, spirits and fairies... I can see how beliveing in a greater force isn't such a leap beyond that.
RicOlie_2 said:
4. Unification: this is debatable, but in theory, if everyone followed one religion there would be a lot fewer problems in the world, depending on the religion.
Not really, since everybody would just start bickering about wearing the wrong colour hats instead. Sadly it's human nature to fear that which we see as different.
RicOlie_2 said:
5. Community: by sharing beliefs and meeting every so often, communities of people are formed and people have a chance to meet with people who share their beliefs.
Again I can totally see that benefit. But beyond the same thing you'd get joining a book club or sewing circle, I don't know. This very wonderful online forum that we are all using to discuss SW and the like is a great community but I can't see how praying to the http://originaltrilogy.com domain name every night would make my life any better ;-)
RicOlie_2 said:
6. It explains the origins of the universe (science does this, but it doesn't give a very satisfactory answer).
It doesn't though. An athiest believes that before the universe their was void, a thiest belives that before God there was void. I fail to see the difference, neither explains the transition between nothing and something any more than the other.
RicOlie_2 said:
7. Religion gives life meaning and purpose in a way that cannot be without religion.
If you don't think there is meaning enough in the smile of a loved one, the roar of an Electric Guitar, the sunlight through a leafy canopy, the smell of a strawberry or the sound of a church choir etc etc then that's a shame. This planet is plenty enough wonderful for me without having to wish for anything greater. To use a couple of clichés, I'm too busy 'taking time to smell the roses' and 'waking up and smelling the coffee' to have precious time to waste on praying to a being that may or may not be there, about a second life that may or may not exist.
RicOlie_2 said:
I could continue were I allowed to take things as they are and not ignoring evidence for and against religion.
Feel free, but for the original question I was only interested in understanding how it improves people's lives. The whys and wherefores weren't relevant.
VIZ TOP TIPS! - PARENTS. Impress your children by showing them a floppy disk and telling them it’s a 3D model of a save icon.
Existing models are at best incomplete but leaving long bearded middle aged men on clouds to one side...The universe is everything including time so there was no before, just a beginning, when time started and the final heat death will herald the end of time so there isn't a final event either.
It's possible that the void at the beginning and the void at the end are the same void both activated by a single quantum event or it's just a series of cold voids temporarily heated up and then chilled again.
Alpha to Ωmega is the totality of the universe.
If you want a God, the universe with you inside is as good as any.