Warbler said:
I never meant to imply that you sent her any of those messages. sorry.
I never thought you had, apology not needed.
VIZ TOP TIPS! - PARENTS. Impress your children by showing them a floppy disk and telling them it’s a 3D model of a save icon.
I wrote that those responses were unmerited, and you responded by saying she should have expected that. It was badly worded on your part if you didn't mean she should have expected anger, but not that much.
Bingowings said:
As Christians, Christians should A) apply the laws to themselves and not worry about what other people are doing more than what they do and B) do not judge others because you aren't equipped for the task or risk the outcome of Matthew 7:1-3.
You are 100% correct.
In an ideal society, Christians would follow all the rules of the bible and not just the ones that they like.
I refuse to judge a person, because I sin 5 times before breakfast.
"The other versions will disappear. Even the 35 million tapes of Star Wars out there won’t last more than 30 or 40 years. A hundred years from now, the only version of the movie that anyone will remember will be the DVD version [of the Special Edition], and you’ll be able to project it on a 20’ by 40’ screen with perfect quality. I think it’s the director’s prerogative, not the studio’s to go back and reinvent a movie." - George Lucas
<span> </span>
EyeShotFirst said:
I refuse to judge a person, because I sin 5 times before breakfast.
"Why not round it off with dinner at Milliway's, the restaurant at the end of the universe?"
VIZ TOP TIPS! - PARENTS. Impress your children by showing them a floppy disk and telling them it’s a 3D model of a save icon.
I'm getting on. I've almost certainly got more years behind me than before me.
I have had to put up with this sort of fucking nonsense all my life, knowing all my life that this has been going on for thousands of years.
So if you want to use a book of almost certainly made up crap from the bronze age to screw around with my life why are you surprised that I get upset?
I'm not trying to convert you to homosexuality and tell you your heterosexuality is wrong or dirty or upsets some almighty peeping tom.
As long informed consent is given you can put your bits wherever you like as often as you like.
Oh and the bitch did compare homosexuality to murder.
She said she was confused as to why it was suddenly now right to be homosexual when it's still wrong to murder people.
It never was wrong to be homosexual. A bunch of idiot primitive cave dwellers took the typical (though not only) heterosexual response to men on men sex and wrote a law based on their disgust reflex.
The same set of rules allow for the selling of your children but we don't focus on that anymore just the possibility that men might be having sex with each other.
My partner had a terrible childhood because of the fucked up bullshit preached in the name of God.
Even my dear mum believed that crap until she realised that her son was 'one of those people'.
If you want to believe that an invisible being watches me have sex and disapproves enough to at least want my death but these days not insist on it you are out of your mind and I don't mind tell you so.
What pisses me off about gay pride etc (and I can see why those that do do it) is the battle isn't over.
When people start seeing biblical rules about sex as important as the biblical rules on shrimp maybe then we can have a party and carnival together as equal members of the human race regardless of our sexual preference.
Other churches like the Society of Friends have rejected the biblical crap about homosexuality and have 'married' same sex couples for years so get with the times Christians, Muslims and Jews (not to mention the Buddhists and modern Hindus who have adopted similar stupid rules without any Bible to blame).
Until you do people like myself have to be vigilant. All over the world the fascism thing is becoming fashionable again. Not me, not this time mush.
I don't screw around with your life. Me stating my beliefs that homosexuality is a sin does not screw around with your life. I also believe in allowing people to live their lives how they want as long they don't hurt anyone. Stop grouping me and other Christians like me with the Christians like the westboro baptists. If the woman in the vid thinks that homosexuality is as bad as murder, she's wrong. As for trying to convert you, as long as people aren't breaking any laws or invading your privacy or whatnot, I don't see it as an issue. But no one should force you to convert. I don't know what happened to your partner in his childhood. I will take your word for it that it was something terrible. I am sorry to hear it, but I and Ric_Olie2 and the woman in the video aren't responsible for it.
Finally, when you call:
(Christianity)
certainly made up crap from the bronze age, f___ing nonsense and compare to fascism and falsely accuse me of screwing around with your life, and wish that people that believe as I do would die, why are you surprised that I would get upset?
p.s. if there is anyone here showing fascism tendencies, its you. After all which one of us is wishing death(and making it clear they mean it) on people just for saying what they believe?
Warbler said:
p.s. if there is anyone here showing fascism tendencies, its you. After all which one of us is wishing death(and making it clear they mean it) on people just for saying what they believe?
No kidding. You think almost half the world's population (I'm just guessing here--there are no reliable statistics for this and most Christians and Muslims don't actively practice their religion) should be dead. No Christian I know (or know of, though I am sure their are some wacko fanatics out there) wishes death on homosexuals regardless of whether they have sex with others of their gender. I think you're a bit over the top in this area Bingo. No one should be treating you or any homosexual the way so many (like your partner) are and have been treated, as that is most definitely not Christian. If you think it is Christian, then you have seen the wrong side of things and I am truly sorry for that.
Warbler said:
Finally, when you call:
(Christianity)
- the most important thing in my life
- a thing people like me have died for
- a thing I and some of my family would be willing to die for,
- a thing that is the reason for living for many
- a thing that defines who I am
- a thing that is my reason for believing that all my loved ones are in heaven
- a thing where I believe a totally innocent and perfect person suffered and died for things I did
Let me ask you, Bingowings, is your homosexual sex life the most important thing in your life? Would you be willing to die before giving up gay sex? How many homosexuals live for being homosexual and if they, theoretically, had the option to become heterosexual, would rather cease living than change their sexual attractions? Does your homosexuality define who you are? If so, why your sexuality and not something else about you?
Warbler said:
I don't screw around with your life. Me stating my beliefs that homosexuality is a sin does not screw around with your life. I also believe in allowing people to live their lives how they want as long they don't hurt anyone. Stop grouping me and other Christians like me with the Christians like the westboro baptists. If the woman in the vid thinks that homosexuality is as bad as murder, she's wrong. As for trying to convert you, as long as people aren't breaking any laws or invading your privacy or whatnot, I don't see it as an issue. But no one should force you to convert. I don't know what happened to your partner in his childhood. I will take your word for it that it was something terrible. I am sorry to hear it, but I and Ric_Olie2 and the woman in the video aren't responsible for it.
Finally, when you call:
(Christianity)
- the most important thing in my life
- a thing people like me have died for
- a thing I and some of my family would be willing to die for,
- a thing that is the reason for living for many
- a thing that defines who I am
- a thing that is my reason for believing that all my loved ones are in heaven
- a thing where I believe a totally innocent and perfect person suffered and died for things I did
certainly made up crap from the bronze age, f___ing nonsense and compare to fascism and falsely accuse me of screwing around with your life, and wish that people that believe as I do would die, why are you surprised that I would get upset?
p.s. if there is anyone here showing fascism tendencies, its you. After all which one of us is wishing death(and making it clear they mean it) on people just for saying what they believe?
Maybe you are not screwing with the live of homosexuals, but you cannot deny that much christians do, adid in the past. Also there was and is much fascism like acting amongst much christians in the name of christianity and god. And you may believe that these people are also wrong and act not in the name of god, but the fact is that these people just believe(d) that, and in your own argumentation, they are as right as you bringing death in the name of god, as you are calling homosexuality a sin. So, if you say these people are wrong in what they were and are doing, you are also in the possibility of being wrong, or who are you to judgy such things? Are you the only judging instance regarding god's will: God?
Also, as always, the bad attitude showing persons of a group are the one which brings bad blood towards this group.
"I kill Gandalf." - Igor, Dork Tower
Yes, many Christians have done terrible things and sometimes said they were doing it in the name of God. I believe they are wrong. What would you have me do? Give up my religion and my religious beliefs because of them? No. Is it possible I could be wrong in my beliefs? Sure. I am only human. As I have said repeated, I believe all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. I have sinned and will do so again. I don't judge Bingo or any homosexual. I leave the judging to God. Believing something is a sin is not the same as judging people.
Won't be trying to make you to give up your faith bring the opposide effect?
The only thing I can do is make you think on and give you points ro rethink particular points of some parts of the believed things. Like your believe that homosexuality "is a sin".
As you said: You maybe wrong. I think (and believe) on that certain point you are wrong, but I do not hing that you are wrong to have a strong faith in christianity and god.
I do not whish anyone something such strong and bad that make him or her loose the faith.
I think we both could agree on some things:
One bad thing is that some (maybe much) religios people are not only believe something is a sin, but they also believe that they have to judge people.
Another bad thing is that extreme poeple of a group of people can give the whole group a bad public flavour.
"I kill Gandalf." - Igor, Dork Tower
MrBrown said:
I think we both could agree on some things:
One bad thing is that some (maybe much) religios people are not only believe something is a sin, but they also believe that they have to judge people.
Another bad thing is that extreme poeple of a group of people can give the whole group a bad public flavour.
yes these things we can agree on.
RicOlie_2 said:
Warbler said:
p.s. if there is anyone here showing fascism tendencies, its you. After all which one of us is wishing death(and making it clear they mean it) on people just for saying what they believe?
No kidding. You think almost half the world's population (I'm just guessing here--there are no reliable statistics for this and most Christians and Muslims don't actively practice their religion) should be dead. No Christian I know (or know of, though I am sure their are some wacko fanatics out there) wishes death on homosexuals regardless of whether they have sex with others of their gender. I think you're a bit over the top in this area Bingo. No one should be treating you or any homosexual the way so many (like your partner) are and have been treated, as that is most definitely not Christian. If you think it is Christian, then you have seen the wrong side of things and I am truly sorry for that.
Just saying what they believe...
If you believed that everything could be solved by a nice cup of tea it would be probably inaccurate but not evil. Nobody could object to that. If anything it would help the sell of tea which after the opium wars isn't the big calamity it used to be.
Saying that someone should be stoned to death because of something they do with consenting adults in the privacy of their own home... only you can't do the stoning because Jesus said (thank Christ for Jesus the only semi-sane character in the whole pantomime) yet because of this they are dirty, wrong and somehow lesser people not deserving of the same considerations as people who do the same thing, only in the way your invisible unprovable godhead says in a compendium of largely unrelated texts, eroded by translation *breath in* is in my view something I would rather you stopped breathing than wasting my brain space with your demented fuckwittery.
Agreeing with a woman who seemingly in all honesty equates the acceptance of homosexuals with the acceptance of murder is weird to a point that my brain no longer wants to go to in my time of life.
Wishing you would not speak your nauseating prejudicial bollocks isn't the same as wishing death... as such, the death bit is merely an illustration of just how much I wish you idiots would stop being bigots.
Yes a lot of people believe the same nonsense as that stupid stupid girl.
A lot of people thought the world was flat and still believe that outspoken women cause earthquakes and that gays are secretly married to genies.
It doesn't mean they are right.
Reality isn't a consensus thing it's just there, like bigotry justified by tradition.
The majority really can be wrong for the longest time before seeing the light.
Now you say we shouldn't be mistreated.
Thanks
But the reason we are mistreated is because of a tradition of selectively seeing the world through a Levitican prism.
You have dropped the not suffering a witch to live bit (even though that is Exodus to fair) which has been a boon for elderly female herbalists at least in the Western world.
You don't seem to be too interested in selling your children or worrying about if your clothes are made of mixed twine.
So why not cool it with the gay thing?
All it takes is for enough people to say...this isn't really relevant to Christ's message of kindness and mutual understanding all this quoting the Old Testament and Paul the Misogynist.
If you still believe your God will demand of someone the foreskins of a thousand gentiles of an evening and you still think he is the sort of deity for you. How do you square that with Jesus? If they are the same guy he is a bit a flip flopper when it comes to insane levels of brutal violence.
I may say it but I wouldn't actually kill anyone.
If someone died every time Warb dropped a FOAD bomb none of us would be here would we?
Spiritually you need to get out of the bronze age. Because there are lots of other things consenting men do in the privacy of their own home for pleasure that weren't around in the bronze age.
Maybe showering or rollerblading are an abomination onto God. Without an update you just can't tell can you?
there is no point in talking talking to you about this, Bingo. You bigoted against people like me and you are a hypocrite(for complaining and complaining and complaining about my foad comments and then hereyou wish death on people that think homosexuality is a sin). I am done with this.
Bingowings said:
If someone died every time Warb dropped a FOAD bomb none of us would be here would we?
If you'd open you head a little, you might have realized that I haven't done this in awhile.
Warbler said:
there is no point in talking talking to you about this, Bingo. You bigoted against people like me and you are a hypocrite(for complaining and complaining and complaining about my foad comments and then hereyou wish death on people that think homosexuality is a sin). I am done with this.
I am bigoted... me...? Okay.
I haven't come to my conclusions because a Pope, or a book or a spooky voice told me to.
I have observed and learned from people who believe the nonsense of the Bible (and not all the Bible is nonsense) and how they interact with me.
Its a judgement not a prejudgement.
Intransigent prejudice is the definition of bigotry.
Now you FOAD people who just hold views that you can be bothered to understand or just don't chime with your world view (you don't actually mean it...I think... but when you do it you devalue the currency of curses and come across as a bit of a prick).
Opening my head as you say for a bit I have noticed and appreciate the moves you have made away from this trend and it reflects well on you.
When I wish people would not breath rather than use tradition as an excuse to prejudge a large minority including causing actual death I do mean it but I wouldn't actually kill anyone, I just wish the breath would escape their body before the vileness hits my ears and eyes.
If that makes me a hypocrite, I have to take your word for it but being a Christian you are not in any position to judge me because your spiritual master commands that you aren't.
deleted.
Bingowings said:
I have observed and learned from people who believe the nonsense of the Bible (and not all the Bible is nonsense) and how they interact with me.
and you assume that all Christians are like the ones that interacted with you. You assume we are all like the Westboro Baptists. There is your bigotry.
I not even sure if Westboro are a genuine religious group or not.
They are so extreme it's tempting to see them as a Swiftian Pastiche of a church.
My neighbours are from a Catholic background but it's never been an issue for them as far as I know. They are great neighbours. Indeed most of the Christians I know never bring up homosexuality... If they know you are homosexual.
I have encountered people you might consider pleasant, respectable , not otherwise incendiary who in their ignorance of my sexuality have said that gay people should be locked up, or hung using the Levitican defense either as a Christian, a Jew or even as an agnostic.
It's such an intrenched idea that you don't have to actively believe in the biblical God to use biblical teaching as an excuse for being an evil jerk.
All of the Western world has had cultural exposure in the past to that section of the Bible so it's become one of those religious traditions where the religion element is no longer obligatory but as you can tell from the video it bugs religious people still too.
The religious instructor in my school claimed it was a mental illness that caused homosexuality.
When you grow up noticing that you are attracted to the same gender and politicians and teachers and parents and strangers say stuff like that by the time you get to being my age you just haven't the time for it any more.
Imagine as a young man you heard this sort of crap. How does that make you think about the human race? I've had bricks thrown at me, not mention the verbal abuse and you tie that to news stories like this.
It has an accumulating effect to have general prejudice coupled with spiritual people seemingly in agreement.
Its not just traditional Christians. I've mentioned at length Orson Scott Card's views and Michelle Shocked (once the poster girl for lesbians in need of a poster girl) has said some confusing and bizarre things on the subject from a Mormon background though Darth Editious has pointed out this isn't representative of an actual Mormon approach to the subject but I bought his books, friends of mine collected all he records and I'm left wondering what the hell happened there?
It's genital rubbing between consenting adults. It's the most idiotic prejudice I can think of an I have a proven record of thinking of some pretty strange stuff.
The supreme irony is that as a middle aged man in a monogamous relationship with a man with a bit of a drinky problem (largely stemming from a very screwed up childhood along the lines above) I haven't had sex for two years if not more.
It was a major feature of our relationship at the beginning but I'm not with him for the orgasms. It all adds to the general feeling of 'fuck of and leave me alone' I have on the subject. Whenever it's raised I feel less for the species I really do. My zest for life depletes.
EyeShotFirst said:
Bingowings said:
As Christians, Christians should A) apply the laws to themselves and not worry about what other people are doing more than what they do and B) do not judge others because you aren't equipped for the task or risk the outcome of Matthew 7:1-3.
You are 100% correct.
In an ideal society, Christians would follow all the rules of the bible and not just the ones that they like.
That would be a terrible and insane society.
You cant both love your neighbor, and kill witches. You can't turn the other cheek, and kill men who sleep with menstruating women.
TheBoost said:
EyeShotFirst said:
Bingowings said:
As Christians, Christians should A) apply the laws to themselves and not worry about what other people are doing more than what they do and B) do not judge others because you aren't equipped for the task or risk the outcome of Matthew 7:1-3.
You are 100% correct.
In an ideal society, Christians would follow all the rules of the bible and not just the ones that they like.
That would be a terrible and insane society.
You cant both love your neighbor, and kill witches. You can't turn the other cheek, and kill men who sleep with menstruating women.
As I have said before, killing people is no longer required. That was a requirement for the Israelites living in a theocracy. I am a Christian living in the same world and country as non-Christians, so we can't apply those rules anymore. There were reasons for those laws, but most of them are either not applicable or applicable to a lesser degree now. The primary rule of the Bible is LOVE God and YOUR NEIGHBOUR. What is so wrong with that? Perhaps you might find loving God objectionable, but the loving your neighbour bit should be less of a problem.
RicOlie_2 said:
TheBoost said:
EyeShotFirst said:
In an ideal society, Christians would follow all the rules of the bible and not just the ones that they like.
That would be a terrible and insane society.
You cant both love your neighbor, and kill witches. You can't turn the other cheek, and kill men who sleep with menstruating women.
As I have said before, killing people is no longer required. That was a requirement for the Israelites living in a theocracy. I am a Christian living in the same world and country as non-Christians, so we can't apply those rules anymore. There were reasons for those laws, but most of them are either not applicable or applicable to a lesser degree now. The primary rule of the Bible is LOVE God and YOUR NEIGHBOUR. What is so wrong with that? Perhaps you might find loving God objectionable, but the loving your neighbour bit should be less of a problem.
So it would be an ideal society if all Christians followed your particular interpretation of the Bible? And they ignored the ones that you ignore.
Cool.
TheBoost said:
RicOlie_2 said:
TheBoost said:
EyeShotFirst said:
In an ideal society, Christians would follow all the rules of the bible and not just the ones that they like.
That would be a terrible and insane society.
You cant both love your neighbor, and kill witches. You can't turn the other cheek, and kill men who sleep with menstruating women.
As I have said before, killing people is no longer required. That was a requirement for the Israelites living in a theocracy. I am a Christian living in the same world and country as non-Christians, so we can't apply those rules anymore. There were reasons for those laws, but most of them are either not applicable or applicable to a lesser degree now. The primary rule of the Bible is LOVE God and YOUR NEIGHBOUR. What is so wrong with that? Perhaps you might find loving God objectionable, but the loving your neighbour bit should be less of a problem.
So it would be an ideal society if all Christians followed your particular interpretation of the Bible? And they ignored the ones that you ignore.
Cool.
The interpretation I just gave is held by most Christians, as far as I am aware. The goal towards which all Christians should strive is love of everyone. I'm sure most Christians would agree with me (except those who don't practice their religion--there are agnostics who call themselves Christians).
Bingowings said:
I not even sure if Westboro are a genuine religious group or not.
They are so extreme it's tempting to see them as a Swiftian Pastiche of a church.
My neighbours are from a Catholic background but it's never been an issue for them as far as I know. They are great neighbours. Indeed most of the Christians I know never bring up homosexuality... If they know you are homosexual.
I have encountered people you might consider pleasant, respectable , not otherwise incendiary who in their ignorance of my sexuality have said that gay people should be locked up, or hung using the Levitican defense either as a Christian, a Jew or even as an agnostic.
It's such an intrenched idea that you don't have to actively believe in the biblical God to use biblical teaching as an excuse for being an evil jerk.
All of the Western world has had cultural exposure in the past to that section of the Bible so it's become one of those religious traditions where the religion element is no longer obligatory but as you can tell from the video it bugs religious people still too.
The religious instructor in my school claimed it was a mental illness that caused homosexuality.
When you grow up noticing that you are attracted to the same gender and politicians and teachers and parents and strangers say stuff like that by the time you get to being my age you just haven't the time for it any more.
Imagine as a young man you heard this sort of crap. How does that make you think about the human race? I've had bricks thrown at me, not mention the verbal abuse and you tie that to news stories like this.
It has an accumulating effect to have general prejudice coupled with spiritual people seemingly in agreement.
Its not just traditional Christians. I've mentioned at length Orson Scott Card's views and Michelle Shocked (once the poster girl for lesbians in need of a poster girl) has said some confusing and bizarre things on the subject from a Mormon background though Darth Editious has pointed out this isn't representative of an actual Mormon approach to the subject but I bought his books, friends of mine collected all he records and I'm left wondering what the hell happened there?
It's genital rubbing between consenting adults. It's the most idiotic prejudice I can think of an I have a proven record of thinking of some pretty strange stuff.
The supreme irony is that as a middle aged man in a monogamous relationship with a man with a bit of a drinky problem (largely stemming from a very screwed up childhood along the lines above) I haven't had sex for two years if not more.
It was a major feature of our relationship at the beginning but I'm not with him for the orgasms. It all adds to the general feeling of 'fuck of and leave me alone' I have on the subject. Whenever it's raised I feel less for the species I really do. My zest for life depletes.
you have my sympathy, Bingo.
RicOlie_2 said:
TheBoost said:
RicOlie_2 said:
TheBoost said:
EyeShotFirst said:
In an ideal society, Christians would follow all the rules of the bible and not just the ones that they like.
That would be a terrible and insane society.
You cant both love your neighbor, and kill witches. You can't turn the other cheek, and kill men who sleep with menstruating women.
As I have said before, killing people is no longer required. That was a requirement for the Israelites living in a theocracy. I am a Christian living in the same world and country as non-Christians, so we can't apply those rules anymore. There were reasons for those laws, but most of them are either not applicable or applicable to a lesser degree now. The primary rule of the Bible is LOVE God and YOUR NEIGHBOUR. What is so wrong with that? Perhaps you might find loving God objectionable, but the loving your neighbour bit should be less of a problem.
So it would be an ideal society if all Christians followed your particular interpretation of the Bible? And they ignored the ones that you ignore.
Cool.
The interpretation I just gave is held by most Christians, as far as I am aware. The goal towards which all Christians should strive is love of everyone. I'm sure most Christians would agree with me (except those who don't practice their religion--there are agnostics who call themselves Christians).
I think you have a very rose-tinted view of modern Christianity. I think you'll find "most Christians" don't agree on that much. That's why there are non stop schisms for the last five hundred years.
There are plenty of Christians who would describe their particular take on the religions just like you describe yours and behave/believe radically differently.
Painting those of the same faith who disagree with you as "don't really practice their religion" is more than a little disingenuous.