MeBe--I like your efforts in capturing your LD's, but yunno what? You don't know 2/3rds of what you're talking about over half the time. You really don't. Which is fine, because you're learning as you go, and that's typically the best way to learn--but most of your "rebuttal points" are best guesses and at worst rationalizations for your faulty memories. It's hard to hear you speak authoritatively on any subject about image quality when you can't even capture and burn your DVD correctly the first four times you try. FOR INSTANCE:

PAL vs NTSC isn't going to introduce the kind of color differences you're arguing about if the discs are being played on the proper monitors.

the SOUND SWAP on the dvd's has nothing to do with the color differences you think you're seeing.

You're trying to bring up everything BUT the fact that comparing a restored, remastered, retransferred DVD to an old, out of date, washed out Laserdisc transfer--and then saying the LASERDISC is closer to true is pretty ridiculous. I mean--there's a whole lot of your post dedicated to taking some kind of moral superiority stance to Lucasfilm. Trying to use "Definitive Collection" as some kind of condemnation of Lucasfilm's quality control, while missing the obvious fact that the title of the DVD IS A MARKETING TERM like Ultimate Edition or Special Edition. Plus then you flip flop on THAT by saying this obviously sub-par "Definitive Collection" That Lucas horribly fucked up with and screwed up IS, in fact, the way the movies REALLY should look.

Here--here's a bunch of comparisons.

http://perso.club-internet.fr/willow/SW_Changes/SW_Changes.htm
http://perso.club-internet.fr/willow/SW_Changes/ESB_Changes.htm
http://perso.club-internet.fr/willow/SW_Changes/ROTJ_Changes.htm

Weird. Blue push in the DVD's? I dunno about you, but I think the blue push is occurring behind your head somewhere, especially compared to the SE's directly above it, and the Originals above THAT. You are, as a matter of fact, the FIRST person online I've read anywhere to try and say the DVD's are leaning towards the blue end of the spectrum. It's making me wonder if you're just kind of randomly using tech-geek terminology without really understanding how to apply it. Of course, from reading your posts here, it's probably not enough that I just tell you to look at the screencaps, because then I'd have to trust you to KNOW what you're looking for, and I'm not sold that you KNOW what you're talking about. The fact you still use bullshit like "PPOR" helps me to continue thinking that.

Heaven forbid the LDs ultimately have a more faithful color rendition than the DVDs.

Apparently so. Considering you so easily throw away the idea that previous transfers WERE overbright and soft and washed out. This is fact, man. You've got Rattlesnake backing me up as well up above. I guess WE'RE both insane? I dunno..let's check with David Cronenberg...

excerpted from Film Art: An Introduction by David Bordwell and Kristin Thompson

"Another disparity between film and video involves contrast ratio. While the video camera can reproduce a maximum contrast ratio of 20:1, 35mm color film can reproduce a contrast ratio of 100:1. As a result of these factors, the 35mm film image can display a much greater range of tonalities. When a film is transferred to video, engineers typically handle the narrower contrast ratio by lightening the image, thereby losing the richness of shadow areas. "The versions of The Dead Zone and The Fly that you find on video carry my name," observes director David Cronenberg, "and they are the films that I made, but I hate the way they look on tape. Too bright."

Keep in mind this was long before DVD was thought of. The above happened with EVERY MOVIE. they overcranked the brightness and contrast. It's just a matter of fact that earlier transfers for the VHS and LD era WERE OVERBRIGHT.

And then lets check with Robert Harris, the man responsible for the restoration of Vertigo and Lawrence of Arabia:

When I finally made it back to the office and dropped the DVD of Star Wars into my player and viewed the image on my monitor I was pleased.

Later in the evening I sampled a number of different scenes from different discs on a larger system, and also was pleased.

The films are pretty.

They are clean.

this is a superb product.

Gee. You'd think if the guy responsible for film restoration of some DEFINITE CLASSICS had noticed a blue push, had thought the picture was oversaturated--he'd have mentioned it, right?

But that's not really the point of your argument, is it. It's boils down to this sentence.

Saying we can't be right because Lucas could never get it wrong is flat-out ridiculous.

See--I never SAID LUCAS COULD NEVER GET IT WRONG. You're seeing what you want to see and then trying to beat me over the head with it. What I said was that the SAME transfer got pressed to the SAME discs in the same plants as EVERY OTHER REGION got pressed at. PAL regions got that IDENTICAL transfer encoded in PAL. It's the SAME TRANSFER. You're not going to notice a color difference between R1 and R4, because it's the EXACT SAME NTSC transfer, simply with different region coding.

I've never said Lucas Could Never Get It Wrong, because I'm not the kind of fawning, sycophantic fanboy you want to paint me as. It's easier to wipe away my complaints that way, I know that, but that doesn't actually apply here. What I SAID was that the complaints here are ridiculous, and these transfers are all identical. Funny that Rattlesnake could recognize that pretty easy but instead you got all threatened and started bringing up stuff like the frigging AUDIO tracks when we're talking about PICTURE DISCREPANCIES. Hell, you can't even spell non-sequitur right.

Jesus Christ...