._.
I'll just stay in my nice little bubble of things that aren't stupid. Alright?
I’m just here because I’m driving tonight.
It's pretty unlikely that in an entire galaxy, only two Force religions would ever spring up. There should be a countless number of religions and sects in the galaxy, all with their own philosophies on the Force.
But Lucas wanted to dumb down everything, simplify it so he could place undue emphasis on the Jedi/Sith dichotomy.
Looking back I saw a post about whether or not a good character could convincingly turn evil. I'm reminded of a quote from Spoony:
Actually, you know what? As cheesy as the acting is - and it is really, really fucking cheesy - I actually think Lords of Magick does a better job of building up Ulric's fall to the dark side than Star Wars did for Anakin. Oh yeah. I'm going there.
Here, let me lay down this beat, see if you pick it up: we like Ulric and we can tell he's a nice guy who loves his brother, but he's just weaker in mind and character. He's hot-tempered, impulsive, distracted by hot pieces of ass all the time, he's known to consorting with dark powers as shortcuts, and he's jealous of the powers that his brother has.
I'm not even kidding. In terms of a subtle, believable character arc of a noble, good-hearted wizard's fall to the dark side, The Lords of Magick is better than Star Wars.
*Googles Lords of Magick*
The original trilogy novelizations seem to reflect the 1977-1983 intent. Padme survives longer but only Leia lives with her.
^I doubt her name would have been Padmé back then, though ;-)
Hmm ... that reminds me of something I've been pondering over for awhile ...
"Padmé" wasn't even supposed to be her real name even back when TPM was released, was it? "Padmé" was just an alias she was using while in disguise, with "Amidala" being her real name. After all, she was called "Queen Amidala" not "Queen Padmé", and members of royalty are always addressed by their given names, not their family ones. That her real name is and always was "Padmé" is a retcon from AOTC.
In hindsight, this makes Padmé look even stupider than usual. If she's trying to disguise herself as one of her own handmaidens in TPM, then why is she going around using her real name? It'd be like Clark Kent going out into public in his Superman outfit while still identifying himself as "Clark".
Interesting catch. Maybe Lucas thought people wouldn't be able to follow the plot? ;)
Historically speaking, isn't the whole point of a decoy being absolutely as far away from you as possible? Their whole job is to be a diversion/take a bullet for you. Half the galaxy must know she uses them after TPM.
AOTC almost does it right, but one wonders why Padme didn't take an economy flight from Naboo the same way she returns there. The escort fighters could have just as easily been blown out of the sky. Frink has proven this. :P
And I'm overthinking the prequels again. Darn you George!
Where were you in '77?
Meh, historically speaking royalty didn't have a lot of variety. Check this out:DuracellEnergizer said:
In hindsight, this makes Padmé look even stupider than usual. If she's trying to disguise herself as one of her own handmaidens in TPM, then why is she going around using her real name? It'd be like Clark Kent going out into public in his Superman outfit while still identifying himself as "Clark".
http://twister111.tumblr.com
Previous Signature preservation link
Yes, but the people of Naboo elect their Queens. There doesn't even seem to be any Kings, let alone a royal bloodline. And they have term limits, so Padme gave up the title.
If Leia hadn't been adopted by Bail Organa, she wouldn't even be a princess!
Where were you in '77?
The prequels we got were nothing like they were originally planned. The sequels won't be as originally planned or how we imagined them and the EU has been erased. Wish i could go back to prior to 1997 before the special editions, before the prequels.
“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.
adywan said:
This is a really interesting excerpt from the upcoming "Making of Return of the Jedi" book.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/22/star-wars-prequels-return-of-the-jedi_n_3313793.html
Interesting to just how different his plans were back then. It also destroys the argument of the prequel fans that they were planned out that way all along ( i bet they're going to love that ;) ).
So to summarise;
Yoda doesn't fight. He is more of a teacher.
NO MIDICHLORIANS
Jedi can love and marry.
ANYONE can learn to use the force if they are prepared to learn.Luke & Leia's mother was still alive until they were 2 years old
So they would have originally fit in pretty well with the OT.
Should of stuck to it.
Battle droids the robotic incarnations of Jar Jar Binks.
Filthy Pierre said:
adywan said:
This is a really interesting excerpt from the upcoming "Making of Return of the Jedi" book.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/22/star-wars-prequels-return-of-the-jedi_n_3313793.html
Interesting to just how different his plans were back then. It also destroys the argument of the prequel fans that they were planned out that way all along ( i bet they're going to love that ;) ).
So to summarise;
Yoda doesn't fight. He is more of a teacher.
NO MIDICHLORIANS
Jedi can love and marry.
ANYONE can learn to use the force if they are prepared to learn.Luke & Leia's mother was still alive until they were 2 years old
So they would have originally fit in pretty well with the OT.
Should of stuck to it.
Indeed they should have. I wonder if the interview is implying that Palpatine is a self-taught Force-user. If so, I wonder whether or not Palpatine was supposed to be a lightsaber wielder.
DuracellEnergizer said:
^I doubt her name would have been Padmé back then, though ;-)
Hmm ... that reminds me of something I've been pondering over for awhile ...
"Padmé" wasn't even supposed to be her real name even back when TPM was released, was it? "Padmé" was just an alias she was using while in disguise, with "Amidala" being her real name. After all, she was called "Queen Amidala" not "Queen Padmé", and members of royalty are always addressed by their given names, not their family ones. That her real name is and always was "Padmé" is a retcon from AOTC.
In hindsight, this makes Padmé look even stupider than usual. If she's trying to disguise herself as one of her own handmaidens in TPM, then why is she going around using her real name? It'd be like Clark Kent going out into public in his Superman outfit while still identifying himself as "Clark".
Interestingly, Amidala was actually the cover name initially, as she was described in TPM as Padme Naberrie. Later it appears that the Amidala part got attached to her name instead, but I guess the in-universe explanation is that it was her royal name that she simply later came to go by all the time.
Krakatoa said:
Looking back I saw a post about whether or not a good character could convincingly turn evil. I'm reminded of a quote from Spoony:
Actually, you know what? As cheesy as the acting is - and it is really, really fucking cheesy - I actually think Lords of Magick does a better job of building up Ulric's fall to the dark side than Star Wars did for Anakin. Oh yeah. I'm going there.
Here, let me lay down this beat, see if you pick it up: we like Ulric and we can tell he's a nice guy who loves his brother, but he's just weaker in mind and character. He's hot-tempered, impulsive, distracted by hot pieces of ass all the time, he's known to consorting with dark powers as shortcuts, and he's jealous of the powers that his brother has.
I'm not even kidding. In terms of a subtle, believable character arc of a noble, good-hearted wizard's fall to the dark side, The Lords of Magick is better than Star Wars.
http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Fall-to-the-Dark-Side/topic/8843/
C3PX mentioned this thread as well. Good times.
IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!
"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005
"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM
"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.
SilverWook said:
Yes, but the people of Naboo elect their Queens. There doesn't even seem to be any Kings, let alone a royal bloodline. And they have term limits, so Padme gave up the title.
If Leia hadn't been adopted by Bail Organa, she wouldn't even be a princess!
The whole idea of a queen being "elected" in the first place is ridiculous. Queens / Kings are heirs to a throne through a royal bloodline - no one elects a king or queen.
Furthermore, even if that were the case, I doubt the people of Naboo would elect a pubescent teenage girl as the undisputed ruler of their entire planet. Then again, they did put freaking Jar Jar in the senate, so who knows. Either way it's lame and the people of Naboo are once again proven to be imbeciles.
Technically, Leia is not a true princess since she was adopted. But, the Organas are an old line of Alderaanian royalty in the original tale. Therefore, their adopted daughter is given the title of princess, even though the title is basically meaningless in current Alderaan society since the planet became a democracy many years prior. But the title also helps Leia hide as one of the Organas, since in the original tale, I doubt Anakin's wife was supposed to be royalty - that junk was just made up by Lucas in 1998 when he started writing Ep1. This change also makes the Organas look stupid if so. "Oh hey, check out our new adopted daughter here - Princess Leia - she's a princess because her mom was like a queen of Naboo and all. But, nobody is supposed to know that, it's a secret, so don't tell Darth Vader, okay?" Lame.
Besides, even if Amidala was a real queen ... blah blah blah ... how come we never hear anyone saying "Prince Luke Skywalker?"
Filthy Pierre said:
adywan said:
This is a really interesting excerpt from the upcoming "Making of Return of the Jedi" book.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/22/star-wars-prequels-return-of-the-jedi_n_3313793.html
Interesting to just how different his plans were back then. It also destroys the argument of the prequel fans that they were planned out that way all along ( i bet they're going to love that ;) ).
So to summarise;
Yoda doesn't fight. He is more of a teacher.
NO MIDICHLORIANS
Jedi can love and marry.
ANYONE can learn to use the force if they are prepared to learn.Luke & Leia's mother was still alive until they were 2 years old
So they would have originally fit in pretty well with the OT.
Should of stuck to it.
Amen. Too bad Lucas decided he wanted to change it all around just to spite Gary Kurtz for turning the Star Wars films into good movies instead of the garbage Lucas wanted. And we all see how that turned out when Lucas got his way finally with the Special Editions and Prequels :(
Ryan McAvoy said:
A question:
I always remember growing up with the image of Anakin and Obi-Wan dueling in a Volcano (Or at a push a lava planet) firmly fixed in my mind. Me, my brothers and my friends. So where did I get this notion from? An article? A EU book? An interview?
In 1983 I picked up a so called Story Treatment that was being sold at the dealers tables at a Science Fiction / Comic Book convention in New York City. The treatment was titled "Episode III - Fall of The Republic". That is how I found out abut the Volcano fight between Vader and Obi-Wan back then. No it was not official, but I was not aware of that fact when I purchased it.
DISSOLVE TO:
SCENE 1: Sigma Vulcanus -- a new, evolving world, that is con-
stantly being shook by violent earthquakes and volcanic
eruptions, and which is devoid of sentient life-forms.
On the molten, volcanic world of Sigma Vulcanus, Anakin Skywalker, a handsome, swarthy man with a dignified stature, makes an important discovery. Using his lightsabre (as the equivalent of a divining rod), he uncovers the legendary Kaiburr Crystal. It pulsates with energy and fills Skywalker with a false sense of power and importance. But before he can savor his triumph, and return the Crystal to Palpatine, he is confronted by his old friend, and fellow Jedi Knight, Obi-Wan Kenobi and requested to explain his actions. Anakin refuses, and instantly, the two knights draw their lethal weapons and become locked in mortal combat.
Anakin Skywalker, as if controlled by another force, strikes swiftly in rage, but Obi-Wan Kenobi, the more experienced Jedi, easily deflects the furious blows of his young opponent. "Let go of the Crystal, my friend! Its power will consume you and turn you against the Jedi Knights," Kenobi explains. But the words are un-heeded by the young Jedi, and the conflict continues.
Skywalker attacks Obi-Wan again, forcing him to discard his defensive posture. Kenobi parries the thrust and sends Anakin's lightsabre flying out of his hand. At precisely the same moment, a cataclysmic earthquake rocks the planet. The effect is devastating: fissures, in the earth crack open and spout walls of flame; thunder and lightning strike violently from the sky; and several volcanos burst and bubble.
The young Jedi struggles to regain his lightsabre, but loses his footing and plunges, still in possession of the Crystal, into a pit of molten lava.
Kenobi hurries to the edge of the volcano and looks down; but he is too late to save his former friend: Skywalker is completely engulfed in lava! With tears in his eyes and anguish in his heart, Obi-Wan picks up Anakin's lightsabre and bids a sad farewell to the body of his friend.
Source = http://www.yodajeff.com/fanfiction/stories/republic.shtml
“First feel fear, then get angry. Then go with your life into the fight.” - Bill Mollison
I remember this tale. I think the crystal was called the "Kyber Crystal" or something like that.
I remember some parts being cheesy, but most of it was pretty good, like the section above. Too bad Lucas turned the epic battle between Obi-wan and Anakin into a CG lava surfing video game with about as much emotion as a tofu sandwich :(
Oops. I must have missed it in the first paragraph there, it says "Kaiburr crystal". :)
Jefe' said:
The whole idea of a queen being "elected" in the first place is ridiculous. Queens / Kings are heirs to a throne through a royal bloodline - no one elects a king or queen.
Where were you in '77?
DuracellEnergizer said:
It's pretty unlikely that in an entire galaxy, only two Force religions would ever spring up. There should be a countless number of religions and sects in the galaxy, all with their own philosophies on the Force.
But Lucas wanted to dumb down everything, simplify it so he could place undue emphasis on the Jedi/Sith dichotomy.
Actually, Lucas introduced the idea of other Force religions in the Clone Wars.
In an interview, Dave Filoni broke down how Lucas had this idea of what others perceived as magic in other religions in the galaxy was just their own unique way of tapping into the Force.
I thought he had discussed it in one of the commentary videos on StarWars.com but it looks like it must have been in a Forcecast episode.
I highly recommend checking out the accompanying commentary videos for the various Clone Wars episodes. Here's one as an example. They're very insightful on the kinds of things George was up to. A lot of his ideas weren't...that great but every once in a while he'd come up with an interesting concept.
Thankfully, we had Dave there to limit the damage and turn out a great show overall.
Interesting ...
Well, if this is true and a queen can sometimes be elected, then it proves that Leia is not a princess due to her relationship to Amidala - since 1. Amidala was not a true queen, but more an elected official. And 2. Amidala had renounced the title of queen and passed it on to someone else long before Luke and Leia were born.
So, the Organa connection must be where the "princess" title came from all along.
I'm good with this.
Krakatoa said:
Looking back I saw a post about whether or not a good character could convincingly turn evil. I'm reminded of a quote from Spoony:
Actually, you know what? As cheesy as the acting is - and it is really, really fucking cheesy - I actually think Lords of Magick does a better job of building up Ulric's fall to the dark side than Star Wars did for Anakin. Oh yeah. I'm going there.
Here, let me lay down this beat, see if you pick it up: we like Ulric and we can tell he's a nice guy who loves his brother, but he's just weaker in mind and character. He's hot-tempered, impulsive, distracted by hot pieces of ass all the time, he's known to consorting with dark powers as shortcuts, and he's jealous of the powers that his brother has.
I'm not even kidding. In terms of a subtle, believable character arc of a noble, good-hearted wizard's fall to the dark side, The Lords of Magick is better than Star Wars.
Almost any fallen hero redeemed scenario plays out better than Anakin in the PT.
Faith in BTVS goes almost as far as Anakin in the PT in terms of terrible deeds (killing innocent people, torturing her failure of a mentor, betraying everyone who tries to help her, she sides with a uber-villain who wants to eat children) and yet it's more believable and her redemption isn't as easy as throwing an old man down an inexplicable hole in the floor.
The Lucas-Kasdan conversation says that not only do you not need midichlorians to use The Force, you don't even need a master to teach you how to use it! This truly means that anyone can use The Force.