Info: General Terminator 1 & 2 Discussions. — Page 19

This is gonna own!

Hello, new here, I'm unsure if this has been brought up. Found this trailer for an "archival 35mm print" screening of T2 from back in March '13, the footage in the trailer is obviously from the print, the color is strikingly different.

http://vimeo.com/61219104

Quick comparison to the old Artisan DVD (love the much punchier Dolby 5.1 track) with the framing cropped from the trailer.

The footage in that trailer is not from the print.

What you linked there is actually the second theatrical trailer for the film. Both trailers can be found on youtube in high quality:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoNVZRHApqQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PSun1cMTpY

Though I gotta admit that the colors in the trailers are way better and more realistic than the video releases. But sometimes when a trailer is released the color timing for the prints haven't been finished. So who knows what the prints looked like? We could only know if we'd find an actual print or a full version with the color timing in the trailers. Otherwise there wouldn't be any way to color correct it anyway.

Oh sorry, pardon my ignorance! I had no idea the trailers had different color or were available in such high quality. Now I feel letdown! 

Concerning the color, didn't Pioneer Japan's first "Squeeze LD" LaserDisc have a scheme closer to the one seen in those trailers?      

sehnzeleid said:

Concerning the color, didn't Pioneer Japan's first "Squeeze LD" LaserDisc have a scheme closer to the one seen in those trailers?      

Now that would be interesting to see. If anybody can find screenshots or anything, let us know!

You_Too said:

TylerDurden389 said:

Clu42 said:

Also if you're a member of Tehparadox, kingkong650 is also doing a regrading project on the latest remastering of The Terminator: tehparadox.com

Thanks for the link!! That project looks very titillating.

I checked it out and in that project, there's only been a curve added to balance the colors, but the teal (which is then turned into strong blue) isn't toned down and balanced like in our version.

Not saying this to compete with anyone, just saying it so you guys know that our version will still be worth getting.

Now this is what I like about this forum.  Folks who are talented and humble at the same time.  I am always pleased to see various versions of like projects going on ... it means we aren't the only ones paying attention here @ OT.com.  That says something real about what we already know .... that there IS still a way for us to enjoy the movies we love with out all the Bluray "mischiva" (spelling?) we've been asked to settle for by the Studios.  

You_Too said:

sehnzeleid said:

Concerning the color, didn't Pioneer Japan's first "Squeeze LD" LaserDisc have a scheme closer to the one seen in those trailers?      

Now that would be interesting to see. If anybody can find screenshots or anything, let us know!

 It's not THAT different

You_Too said:

Though I gotta admit that the colors in the trailers are way better and more realistic than the video releases.

 More realistic yes, but I disagree that the trailer looks better in that shot.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RARE-35mm-Film-Cell-strip-Terminator-2-Judgment-Day-1991-T-1000-/121245794815?pt=UK_DVD_Film_TV_Film_Memorabilia_LE&hash=item1c3ad001ff

@dvdmike: I examined those two now, and they're actually from the theatrical trailer 1.

Both are different takes than the ones that appear in the movie. For example, T-1000 on the bike has more fire on the left side in the full movie.

Thanks for posting them though!

Thought there was something odd with the audio on them, good spot

Here's some in-theater footage from a 35mm screening back in May.

Supposedly it's an original print from 1991. Not sure why it's in a can that previously belonged to a print of RoboCop 3, or why the bands with all the print info on them carry the logo of Fine Line Features, but still - just look at that color.

OPC in London show an original Dolby print at least a few times a year need to get down and see it one day

@TServo2049: That print seems to match the home video releases, except for maybe a bit warmer color balance but it's also filmed off a screen though.

Saw T2 in theaters a few years ago in downtown NYC (forget the name of the theater, but it's one of those theaters that plays old movies every now and then along with new movies and indie/art movies). The print was definitely film, as there was a lot of dirt, and of course the cigarette burns. The color of the film still had the blue color timing that we're all familiar with for this film.

Alright but that confirms it. The trailers hadn't gone through the color timing the full film did. So we're all good with our current color settings for this one. :)

Re: The in-theater clip, yes I know it's recorded off a screen, but I would guess that in a theater, it would look in line with other late 80s/early 90s release prints. Here are trends I've been seeing as I attend repertory screenings (for example, I took a lot of mental notes from the original 1987 print of Lethal Weapon I saw a couple weeks ago).

-Slight "LPP yellow" cast to the lighter end of the color spectrum, especially whites and highlights (but whites still look bright)

-Teal and blue are two separate colors. Even with the "LPP yellow" effect, light blues only look slightly teal, sometimes, but blues (blue skies, blue jeans, night shots) still actually look blue.

-While lighter greens look yellowish ("LPP yellow" again?), deeper greens don't.

-Less pink in skin tones than in old video transfers, less orange than in modern transfers; unless they're particularly ruddy, white people tend to have a complexion similar to what Crayola used to call "flesh", while blacks look chocolate and/or bronze (both also owing to the "yellowness" of LPP?)

-General lack of red in objects and elements that are not specifically red; blood is red, fire engines are red, stop lights are red, but stuff like fire tends to be more yellow-orange than red-orange.

Any of this sound familiar to any of you who have seen prints of T1, T2, or any other films from that timespan? Just curious.

In general, from what little I've seen in the way of 35mm prints, I don't think there have been very many home transfers that do justice to 80s/90s photochemical timing. Old transfers had too much red/pink, modern transfers often have too much teal and orange, and it's seeming to me that original theatrical prints actually fell somewhere in the middle.

I look forward to seeing what you guys can do.

@TServo2049: I can at least tell you that teal/cyan and blue are separated in our version of T1. But in the case of that film, they added that color grading for the new blu-ray, it sure didn't ever look like that.

Also, a reason I think why it's easier to see a difference between teal/cyan and blue in the theater is because a film print has a wider color gamut than blu-ray. It covers more of the color spectrum on the cyan side.

Hi the film looked like the trailer.

The film (T2) was altered for home video release so that the film looks OK on all old tube TVs.

T2 was blue, blue, blue --

bigrob said:

dvdmike said:

OPC in London show an original Dolby print at least a few times a year need to get down and see it one day

You sure? i've seen it twice there now and it's been digital. you can tell when it's a digital because the picture is windowed boxed and doesn't have any imperfections that a print would have (scratches, reel change burns)

T1 is 35mm (via optimum releasing which is strange) though but it's the 2001 remaster with 5.1 remixed soundtrack

 

 They said when I asked on facebook it was 35mm

@Stamper: First of all we need proof for that. If the 35mm screening linked there is from a later print then it's understandable. But nobody can find anything from an original print except frames from scenes that aren't blue in the home release.

@Monroville: sehnzeleid did state that the non-blue image was from the trailer. We still need to find proof that the original 35mm prints had the blue in them though. The screening linked a few posts above did state it was a 1991 original print but who knows.

At least everything does point at the theatrical version having the blue color. 

I looked at the Siskel and Ebert review, which was during the theatrical release, and the hospital chase, the T-1000 entering the helicopter, and a couple other scenes that weren't blue in the trailers are blue there. And the "You can't just go around killing people" scene also has the blue tint. (Yes, it looks purple, but that's due to incorrect hue setting at some stage between the film-to-tape transfer of the footage and the digital file on that site - either in the telecine, video post, the VHS recording or the VHS-to-digital rip.)

Those blues seem in line with Cameron's sensibilities - I can't believe that Cameron would sign off on a non-blue color timing, it would go out to theaters that way, and then he would change his mind and extra money would have been spent to completely retime the film just for home video a few months later. I would understand if the blue timing had been introduced in the Special Edition extended cut, but no, it's there in every home release of the theatrical cut too.

I think the most logical explanation is that the final color timing hadn't been done when assembling the trailers, and that the blue is consistent with what showed up in theaters in 1991.