General Star Wars Random Thoughts Thread — Page 101

Author: imperialscum
Time: 25-Nov-2013 6:12 PM (Edited)
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darklordoftech said:

Am I the only one who understands how the Empire died with Palpatine in ROTJ?

No, you are definitely not the only one. But it seems there are not many of us.

I mean one doesn't really need to think a lot but just need to know a bit of history to get a parallel. But a lot of fans seem to have a weak mental capacity combined with poor knowledge of history.

真実

Author: darklordoftech
Time: 25-Nov-2013 6:21 PM
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imperialscum said:

darklordoftech said:

Am I the only one who understands how the Empire died with Palpatine in ROTJ?

No, you are definitely not the only one. But it seems there are not many of us.

Welcome to the club.

Author: Harmy
Time: 25-Nov-2013 6:42 PM (Edited)
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Oh, really? So when Joseph Stalin died in 1953, the USSR just fell apart within a couple of years, did it? Or do you think that if Hitler was killed in say 1941, the National Socialists would have just called it a day and capitulated? (Without Hitler's egomania, they may actually have had a better chance at winning the war). Or you can go even further back; When Caesar was murdered, was the Roman Republic automatically restored?

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Author: SilverWook
Time: 25-Nov-2013 7:03 PM
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Relevant to the conversation. ;)

http://youtu.be/mAOX_CHU0JY

Where were you in '77?

Author: DominicCobb
Time: 25-Nov-2013 7:51 PM
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Killing the Emperor and destroying the Death Star does not mean the defeat of the Empire, though it does mean their eventual downfall. Without either of those, the chances of the Rebels winning are high. The implication at the end of ROTJ is not that they have won the war, but that they will win.

Author: deepanddark20
Time: 25-Nov-2013 8:38 PM
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Well said, DominicCobb.

At the end of Return of the Jedi, after they've just destroyed the second Death Star and the Emperor and Darth Vader, maybe the Empire is destroyed, maybe it isn't, but one thing's for damn sure: it's too soon for those inserted Special Edition shots of planetary-scale partying on Bespin, Tatooine, Coruscant, Naboo, or whatever other planets will be added in the post-sequel-trilogy version (let's not kid ourselves into thinking 2011 was the last time the movies will ever be changed).

Author: SilverWook
Time: 25-Nov-2013 8:47 PM
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I think George is done fiddling with the OT now that he's sold the moisture farm to Disney. What could they possibly add in the Jedi SE now, except Wampas dancing over a dead Taun Taun? ;)

Where were you in '77?

Author: Reegar
Time: 25-Nov-2013 8:52 PM
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SilverWook said:

I think George is done fiddling with the OT now that he's sold the moisture farm to Disney. What could they possibly add in the Jedi SE now, except Wampas dancing over a dead Taun Taun? ;)

"And I thought they danced bad in the caves."

Indeed. I think we've seen the last of OT SE changes.

Author: deepanddark20
Time: 25-Nov-2013 9:32 PM (Edited)
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They could add a Wookie celebration on Kashyyk (with Chewbacca's family from the Holiday Special in the frame if you look closely).

And I'm sure there will be one or two new planets in the sequel trilogy which could be thrown in to tie the trilogies together, just like they shoehorned Naboo in there in the 2004 edition even though it's otherwise never shown or mentioned in the original trilogy.

Of course I'm being facetious, but if these movies were treated by their own creator as though nothing is sacred about them, how much of a stretch is it for Disney to take that as a precedent for how they treat them (I've said it before and I'll say it again... watch out for rereleases with the 20th century fox fanfare replaced with the Disney castle...... the logos HAVE changed before.....)

George may be done fiddling with the movies, but Disney hasn't even begun yet.....

Author: darklordoftech
Time: 25-Nov-2013 9:59 PM
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Making of ROTJ and the ROTJ novelization confirm the death of the Empire.

Author: timdiggerm
Time: 25-Nov-2013 10:25 PM
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Harmy said:

Oh, really? So when Joseph Stalin died in 1953, the USSR just fell apart within a couple of years, did it? Or do you think that if Hitler was killed in say 1941, the National Socialists would have just called it a day and capitulated? (Without Hitler's egomania, they may actually have had a better chance at winning the war). Or you can go even further back; When Caesar was murdered, was the Roman Republic automatically restored?

Re: Stalin: he didn't found the Soviet Union, and the post-Stalin USSR was very different (de-Stalinization took place).

ROTJ Storyboard Reconstruction Project

Author: deepanddark20
Time: 25-Nov-2013 10:32 PM
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For some reason I find it supremely amusing that you use the term "deStalinization" in a response to Harmy.

Author: SilverWook
Time: 25-Nov-2013 10:36 PM
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The crux of the argument is this: Does the Empire fall in a day after ROTJ, or does it take some time? The Special Edition would have you believe in instant collapse. The original version mostly leaves it up to the mind of the viewer.

Where were you in '77?

Author: darklordoftech
Time: 25-Nov-2013 10:51 PM
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SilverWook said:

The crux of the argument is this: Does the Empire fall in a day after ROTJ, or does it take some time? The Special Edition would have you believe in instant collapse. The original version mostly leaves it up to the mind of the viewer.

There's several sources from 1983 that suggest that the intent was always instant collapse. Making of ROTJ is full of references to the Empire dying with Palpatine and the ROTJ novelization ends with the words, "The Empire is dead."

Author: TV's Frink
Time: 25-Nov-2013 11:06 PM
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Oh great, my wonderful thread has devolved into the same repetitive back and forth that exists in every other thread.

Author: Baronlando
Time: 25-Nov-2013 11:07 PM
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Well, I suppose Lucas intended for it to be a Castro style overthrow/revolution (and the empire is just a job isn't it? It's not anybody's country to be loyal to, and if the emperor signs your paycheck and he's dead I guess you would quit), but having the entire imperial seat of power celebrating before Luke and Lando even have time to get to the party really is the dumbest thing ever.

Author: SilverWook
Time: 26-Nov-2013 12:13 AM
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Lucas' desire to wrap everything up in a hurry probably didn't leave room for a more plausible downfall. A scene with whoever was left of the Imperial command structure deciding to order a stand down and surrender might have helped.

But to make Frink happy, let's switch gears. What do you get a Wookiee for Christmas, when he already owns a comb?

Where were you in '77?

Author: TV's Frink
Time: 26-Nov-2013 12:23 AM
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Now we're talking!

Um...a groomer?

Author: m_s0
Time: 26-Nov-2013 5:59 AM
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That Oculus Rift thingy with some Wookiee mods for those anime porn "games".

Author: LexX
Time: 26-Nov-2013 12:51 PM
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Star Wars snowflakes: http://www.anthonyherreradesigns.com/index.php/8-ahd-blog/8-star-wars-snowflakes-2013

And in the time of greatest despair, there shall come a savior, and he shall be known as the Son of the Suns.

Author: DuracellEnergizer
Time: 26-Nov-2013 4:47 PM (Edited)
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darklordoftech said:

SilverWook said:

The crux of the argument is this: Does the Empire fall in a day after ROTJ, or does it take some time? The Special Edition would have you believe in instant collapse. The original version mostly leaves it up to the mind of the viewer.

There's several sources from 1983 that suggest that the intent was always instant collapse. Making of ROTJ is full of references to the Empire dying with Palpatine and the ROTJ novelization ends with the words, "The Empire is dead."

Only what shows up on screen matters. Authorial intent, supplimentary material, and various behind-the-scenes comments don't matter.

Author: Harmy
Time: 26-Nov-2013 5:12 PM
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timdiggerm said:

Re: Stalin: he didn't found the Soviet Union, and the post-Stalin USSR was very different (de-Stalinization took place).

This is only true to a point; Stalin was actually one of the founders of the USSR and played a key role in the 1917 revolution. Also it was 15 years after Stalin died when the USSR (with the obligatory help of other Warsaw Pact members) invaded my country to stop us from changing our political system to democracy, so the USSR didn't exactly become mellow after Stalin's death.

I can totally see the post-Stalin USSR situation happening to the Empire - the Empire would denounce the Emperor but continue to rule oppressively and a lot of political infighting would take place between the lower-ranking officials (and this is actually what happened in Rome after Caesar died as well). And this is pretty much what the EU describes and it seems like a perfectly logical and historically sound approach, so saying that the Empire would fall immediately and using history as an argument is in my opinion erroneous.

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Author: imperialscum
Time: 26-Nov-2013 5:20 PM
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TV's Frink said:

Oh great, my wonderful thread has devolved into the same repetitive back and forth that exists in every other thread.

Your thread has been nationalised. Now be quiet or we will take your house and send you to forced labour.

真実

Author: TV's Frink
Time: 26-Nov-2013 5:24 PM
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I don't respond to that spelling of labor, sorry.

Author: imperialscum
Time: 26-Nov-2013 5:50 PM (Edited)
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TV's Frink said:

I don't respond to that spelling of labor, sorry.

Don't tempt me... I have been trying so hard to tolerate improper English around here.

真実