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Why I Don't Like Anything About Naboo or Sifo-Dyas

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You know what I don't understand about the prequel trilogy? Well, actually there's a lot of stuff, but I'm going to focus on two topics in particular.

First why did George Lucas create the planet Naboo for these films? I consider it an incredibly lost opportunity that he didn't provide a back story and some history for the planet Alderaan instead. Ironically, pretty much the way I imagined Alderaan would look is exactly how Naboo looks. Wouldn't it have been great to see the Trade Federation invade Alderaan instead? And think of how much more impact that scene in ANH would have if the Death Star, with complete ambivalence, just destroyed a planet we had gotten to know so well in three other films. The very lack of a "Naboo" in the original trilogy seems conspicuously odd to me - so much so that its recent addition at the end of ROTJ doesn't feel right. Kind of like Lucas saying - "Oh we know we forgot to do anything with this planet in three movies, but look what we can now do through the miracle of CGI!" Heck, it would've made more sense to me if we saw all the swamp creatures celebrating on Dagobah! (I'm joking. No I don't want to see leaping lizards and dancing frogs in the 2007-edition DVDs.) Anyways, I just really regret we've learned nothing about Alderaan in the prequels.

Which leads me to my second gripe. In a similar lost opportunity, why didn't Episode I contain any scenes with Master Sifo-Dyas? Again, think of how much more impact the revelation in Episode II would have had if Obi-Wan learned that a character we remembered from Episode I was not who he seemed to be. But instead of a scene that could have been a surprising revelation (like Vader's identity in Episode IV), we just sit there scratching our heads and saying to ourselves, "Who?" Dare I say it would have made more sense if instead of a reference to "Sifo-Dyas" it was "Qui-Gon Jin"? Then you would have an easy explanation as to why he did not disappear after he died, and his reasons for training Anakin against the wishes of the council would suddenly seem more dubious.

These two plot points, among others, make the new trilogy feel like rough drafts to me. Ironic since Lucas should have had about 15 years to think about all these plot points after completing ROTJ, but it seems like he never started writing the prequels until after his important to-do list of making Greedo shoot first, Han step on Jabba's tail, and adding a Broadway dance number to Jabba's palace!

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What ever do you mean? Lucas is already inserting Sifo-Dyas scenes into TPM...
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Come on, the old guy probably has 2-3 working brain cells, and you expect him to weave a compelling story, include references to the OT, maintain basic continuity, and actually foreshadow more than 10 minutes into the future?

Lucas had no clue, idea or story pertaining to what the prequels would be about, and it shows.
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Obvioulsy that is harsh. Yeah, Lucas could've changed several things that would make the prequels better, but he didn't. He did it exactly the way he wanted it, and because of that, a bunch of jaded cynics don't like it. Which is fine. You have every right not to like a movie. I hate Kill Bill, but I don't go to Kill Bill websites and bash that movie.

Also, you really need to change your sig man! If you must rearange "Sith" do it in small leters rather than a huge logo.

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rennervision doesn't like me

(btw, I didn't show up during ep1 because I was busy ordering clone armies for a whole bunch of customers)
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I hate Kill Bill, but I don't go to Kill Bill websites and bash that movie.


Ummm.... please check the URL of this website.
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You do realize this is the "General Starwars Discussion" which means anything goes, from Old Republic to New Jedi Order to Dark Empire.

Besides, I agree that the OT is better than the PT. But the PT is much better than you're giving it credit for.

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I'm not going to beat around the bush:

The prequels sucked, and they've sucked HARD, and if these movies did not have the Star Wars mythos to hang onto (and had to rely on script, directing, story, acting, etc.), they'd be universally panned and would have made 10-cents at the box office. In terms of overall quality, the two Prequels make Matrix Revolutions look like Casablanca.
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I prefer the Matrix Revolutions to Casablanca any day, so your argument isn't very convincing.

I mean you almost implied that The Matrix Revolutions is a bad movie.
Which, now that I think about it is something I would expect from someone who hates the prequels as much as you seem to.

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This conversation is over. Someone who thinks the putrid Matrix Revolutions is superior to a classic Like Casablanca is not worth arguing with. Seriously.
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I think Lucas has purposely made bad prequels, fucked with the OT and stuff like that for a reason...to divide SW fans for his own twisted little nazi-like experiment.
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I hate lothe wouldnt piss on them if they were on fire the Prequels, but the matrix trilogy is by no means a bad saga, most people just get confused when the watch them and miss the overall point (it takes a cetain kind to enjoy them*) But comparing any matrix film to casablanca is a bit um... well say strecting their worth.


* this is not to say that ones intellegence has anything to do with the enjoyment of the Matrix films. It is more the way people think. Highly concrete thinkers would not enjoy the matrix movies nearly as much as a more abstract thinker. It is a matter of intelectual taste rather than intellegence...
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Originally posted by: Sam_Lu
This conversation is over. Someone who thinks the putrid Matrix Revolutions is superior to a classic Like Casablanca is not worth arguing with. Seriously.


I think he has a martyr complex, and actually gets a kick out of being so hated and reviled. Really look over his interviews sometime, where he mentions "taking the slings and arrows".

The Passion of the Lucas!!

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Originally posted by: Sam_Lu
This conversation is over. Someone who thinks the putrid Matrix Revolutions is superior to a classic Like Casablanca is not worth arguing with. Seriously.


First of all, Matrix Revolutions is far from putrid, but I guess it would be hard to convince any jaded cynic such as yourself of that. Why should I bother arguing with someone with an enourmous obcenity in their sig? You lose all your credibilty by insulting a movie you've never seen with a childish manipulation of its name. How can I argue with somenone like that.

Second, I"VE NOT SEEN CASABLANCA. I was not making a judgment on it's quality, it simply doesn't interest me as much as a computer world battle for the the survival of the human race. And I'm sure it is a better movie than TM-Rev, but I really don't care about it.

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but the matrix trilogy is by no means a bad saga, most people just get confused when the watch them and miss the overall point (it takes a cetain kind to enjoy them*)


LOL. I don't think it comes down to not understanding them, but simply not liking the last two movies. I could get 100% on a Matrix Philosophy exam, but I still think the last two movies were half-baked cash grabs.

From my experience, it really comes down to how much you've invested in the "Matrix Culture" (ie. owning Matrix video games, toys and collectibles, watching Animatirx, cartoons, etc.), and whether you define the Matrix Trilogy as movies or as a sub-culture involving all manner of media. Movie fans, on average, hated them, while Matrix sub-culture fans loved them.
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See i hated the first movie, it was simply plato regurgitated with [sarcasm] completely awesome outfits, and wonderful special effects [/sarcasm]. Further more i cant stand matrix fan culture. But i loved the last two movies, it left me pondering for weeks all the implications of the various alagories and simbolism. Not to mention the vast array of historical, philosophical, and religious name/likeness dropping.
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I had no problem with the sequels, but then, I wasn't big on the first one until their inpending release.


Made for IE Forum's Episode III theme month - May 2005.

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Not to mention the vast array of historical, philosophical, and religious name/likeness dropping.


But without some actual usage in the movie, that's all it turned to be, "pretentious film student" name dropping.

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Originally posted by: Darth Chaltab
You do realize this is the "General Starwars Discussion" which means anything goes, from Old Republic to New Jedi Order to Dark Empire.

Besides, I agree that the OT is better than the PT. But the PT is much better than you're giving it credit for.


No not really...they started out ok with TPM but that last piece of shit called Attack of the Clones should not even be considered a Star Wars movie.....300 million box office with just about every critic giving it no more than 2 stars....bad acting, bad casting, terrible story....a love story with NO CHEMISTRY between the two...too much information for the length of the film.

And I fear Episode III is going to go the same way....if III is at least as good as or better than TPM then it might have a chance to save this trilogy...but if it is on par with Attack then you might as well flush this whole PT down the toilet...along with the OT that he has fucked up just to fit the PT!

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Originally posted by: Sam_Lu
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Not to mention the vast array of historical, philosophical, and religious name/likeness dropping.


But without some actual usage in the movie, that's all it turned to be, "pretentious film student" name dropping.


i am not convenced that there isnt meaning behind all of the name dropping. Though one may never know the original intentions of the W brothers.
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Originally posted by: Wet Willy
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Originally posted by: Darth Chaltab
You do realize this is the "General Starwars Discussion" which means anything goes, from Old Republic to New Jedi Order to Dark Empire.

Besides, I agree that the OT is better than the PT. But the PT is much better than you're giving it credit for.


No not really...they started out ok with TPM but that last piece of shit called Attack of the Clones should not even be considered a Star Wars movie.....300 million box office with just about every critic giving it no more than 2 stars....bad acting, bad casting, terrible story....a love story with NO CHEMISTRY between the two...too much information for the length of the film.

And I fear Episode III is going to go the same way....if III is at least as good as or better than TPM then it might have a chance to save this trilogy...but if it is on par with Attack then you might as well flush this whole PT down the toilet...along with the OT that he has fucked up just to fit the PT!



Wow. You don't meet many people who think TMP was better than Attack of the Clones.

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The secret behind Sifo-Dyas will be reveled in Revenge of the Sith according to the Attack of the Clones commentary. I also believe Alderan will appear in Revenge of the Sith.
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Jimbo do you have Hyperspace? This stuff has already been confirmed.
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Originally posted by: Darth Chaltab
Wow. You don't meet many people who think TMP was better than Attack of the Clones.


Well not that you've met me but I'll put my hand up to say that I believe that TPM is a better film than AOTC. Don't get me wrong I loathe them both but I believe that AOTC is just the stinker pile of shit.

I'm constantly amazed at comments I read from functioning humans who believe that the PT is on a par with the OT.

It's staggering.

Also Naboo sucks and Sifo-Dyas, the PT film character not the hilarious ot.com member, also makes no sense.
"The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country." - Goering.

"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it." - Goebbels.

"In times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." - Orwell.
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I'm constantly amazed at comments I read from functioning humans who believe that the PT is on a par with the OT.


Me too, but at least part of it is due to the PT being incomplete. I've talked to rabid PT fanboys and while they do admit the first two prequels were less-than satisfying, they all hold out this bizarre hope that Lucas will blow their socks off with Revenge of the Sith, thereby justifying their faith.

If ROTS sucks as badly as the first two prequels, you're going to see quite a few disappointed Lucas Lovers running around.

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