Great. I thought of a couple of other things, maybe using cropped or slowed down/looped footage from the documentary.
Here's an example of a cropped shot that might work as a cross cut after the very first mos eisley establishing shot. however the jump in quality might be too jarring
Here is the loop idea (pretty crude) but maybe it could work for as a quick jump cut? https://vimeo.com/68955342
Anyway these are just ideas of maybe some things to try, someone else maybe able to come up with smoother edits which would fit better
*Edit: I uploaded some more edit pieces but I am using a Japanese subtitle source and I think they are too low rez to match now
I did another cover...
Good clips but very low-res. Don't want too much low quality stuff
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TMTYC,
Greetings, I just wanted to say first of all that your rough cut or "work print" of Star Wars is fantastic. it really captures the feeling of what that initial viewing must have been like in the Spring of '77 months before it was released in its final form. In critiquing your film I have the following notes. I want to put it out up front that this is in no way a bash or in other words a negative review, because the film really is fantastic. Rather this review is meant to serve as a way to make your edit really shine, and provide even more enjoyment as well as improve continuity. So here we go;
While I like the whole old film look with the flicker, I would suggest tempering it just a bit, especially in the darker scenes in and especially in scenes that take place in space. This has a rather distracting quality to it that almost takes you out of the movie to focus on that instead. On the very same subject, The blue milk scene with Aunt Beru, while i do love this scene, it seems that you forgot to run the very same effect on it, so it is looks a bit out of place.
Jump cuts or wipes as you may call them, either keep them all in the film or take them out. For instance when R2-D2 leaves C-3P0 to head into the canyon, there is the familiar wipe going up. However one example where you cut it out was the transition from Ben and Luke lifting a broken C-3P0 up that cuts to the exterior of Ben's hut or house. Again this is a continuity issue. Whichever you choose, just make it uniform across the picture.
Have you thought about using any alternate music cues in any of the scenes, or perhaps music that had originally been placed in the temp track? We are all familiar with the classic soundtrack, it might be refreshing to hear music we haven't heard yet, in a workprint I wouldn't be too concerned with keeping it all original. On that same topic, have you thought of using any alternate audio and/or video? In the Star Wars Begins documentary by Jamie Benning, there are some wonderful alternate takes that one could splice in, even the actual actor's voices before dubbing. Again this lends a lot to the rough cut and make us feel like we are seeing the unfinished product. One example comes to mind, When Darth Vader is on the Star Destroyer, there are quite a few lines that are spoken by David Prowse as Darth Vader, that would be great for that scene. Many of C-3P0's lines could be done that way as well. You already used Anthony Daniel's real voice for the Landspeeder scene so why not use it elsewhere?
On the subject of alternate footage, I must congratulate you in your stunning use of alternate footage. Some of it I am familiar with, but there were several surprises I had never seen before. You intergated the Blu Ray deleted scenes nicely. There is more footage and alternate takes/angles to be gleaned that would give your cut a great feel of something new to offer.
Is there any sharper video for the scenes with the WWII battleship/Star Destroyer? I know it's stock footage, but it doesn't quite measure up or fit with the rest of the footage. Speaking of better quality footage, I know the Jabba scene is edited heavily from bits and pieces of footage, but is there any chance of finding the complete scene in a consistent quality? All the jumps in quality almost take you out of the movie with distraction.
The cantina scene, while nicely done, could use some work my friend. The biggest annoyance was the level of the music in these scenes. It is loud enough as to almost drown out the dialogue. I know the effect you were going for, but the music is easily identifiable as CD quality, not live. I think the whole scene would fare better if you cut the music out all together. This was done to much success in the Star Wars Begins doc. Also if you keep the sound the way it is, you need to make sure that the soundtrack syncs up to the action on the screen. You have sound effects playing when that action or character aren't even represented in that scene. one particular example is when Luke grabs the bartender's arm to ask for a beverage, you don't hear him say anything at that point, but several moments later when a different alien is on the screen, mysteriously Luke is asking for a beverage. Just make sure if you have audio playing that it correlates to what action is going on screen. I vote for no music so you can hear Greedo's reading of his lines in that dry English monotone which was almost drowned out with the Cantina Band.
I liked the added scene with Darth Vader and Bast's speech. I thought this little scene added a lot to the overall flow. However strong the editing of the audio is, at the end when Vader says "I shall not fail..." that line needs to be clearer and a bit louder so we can understand what is being said. On the similar subject, as Alderaan get's blown to smithereens, there is a bit of footage of Princess Leia standing there after the destruction of her planet where she says "And you call yourselves humans!" The footage in and of itself adds very little to anything, but it does tie up the scene nicely. It is available on the Star Wars Begins Documentary and you should be able to edit it in nicely.
If you are looking for continuity and are interested in how George Lucas envisioned the original movie, you might do yourself a favor and read the fantastic Making Of Star Wars book by J.W. Rinzler. It includes all the different versions of his script and might help you understand his original intentions with each scene. That information can be used to help you capture that flowing rhythm, especially with any alternate footage/stock footage. If nothing else it is a great read that will teach you more about Star Wars the movie than you ever wanted to know.
Now to end with a silly question, the end your current cut fades out right before they enter the asteroid field/remains of Alderaan system. I noticed there was nothing representing the asteroids, rather just a fade to black. My question is, this was intentional right? This will obviously start part two then?
To finish up, you did a bang up job and should be very proud of what you have accomplished. It is my humble opinion that if you think about incorporating some or all of my suggestions, then you will see that it flows much better and gives the viewers a chance to experience the Star Wars they only read about.
Cheers!
Adam
TK421138 said:
TMTYC,
Greetings, I just wanted to say first of all that your rough cut or "work print" of Star Wars is fantastic. it really captures the feeling of what that initial viewing must have been like in the Spring of '77 months before it was released in its final form.
Thanks for the detailed feedback TK421138. Sorry I've taken so long to reply, when I first read it I didn't have time to write a response then I forgot. duh.
TK421138 said:
While I like the whole old film look with the flicker, I would suggest tempering it just a bit.
I played around with this for a long time. Some of the deleted material is scratched to hell, so I didn't want the rest of the film to look overly clean in comparison but also not excessively damaged. I think I've struck the right balance IMO.
TK421138 said:
The blue milk scene with Aunt Beru, while i do love this scene, it seems that you forgot to run the very same effect on it, so it is looks a bit out of place.
I haven't applied any degrading filters to the deleted material. Maybe I need to add a little hint, with the beru footage as it is actually pretty decent quality.
TK421138 said:
Jump cuts or wipes as you may call them, either keep them all in the film or take them out.
Yes, they are meant to ALL be removed. Thanks for pointing that one out, clearly I've missed some, including a fade I've just spotted at 24.34. Sometimes it's easy to miss them because I end up enjoying watching ANH so much that I forget to watch it for errors ;-)
TK421138 said:
Have you thought about using any alternate music cues in any of the scenes, or perhaps music that had originally been placed in the temp track?
Yes I have, as has been discussed before in the thread. With the first cut of this I'm going to be mainting and then extending the theatrical soundtrack. I'm changing every visual so I want it to at least sound like SW. Once I've got a final version of this I'll be considering a second version with a whole new soundtrack. This would require reconstructing the sound FX before I could even get to layering on the temp music (e.g. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJwa9mX0bxA)
TK421138 said:
splice in the actual actor's voices before dubbing.
If I've got a whole performance, then I'll use the pre-dub. e.g. Camp-English-Greedo and Cockney-Cantina-Denizens. But If it's Vader where I've only got a few fragment of Prowse I'm gonna leave in JEJ. In fact I've created new JEJ dialogue for Vader (With help from others on the thread). So no Mayhew either. But Antony Daniels' onset dialogue is an option, if it is legible through the mask.
TK421138 said:
Is there any sharper video for the scenes with the WWII battleship/Star Destroyer? I know it's stock footage, but it doesn't quite measure up or fit with the rest of the footage. Speaking of better quality footage, I know the Jabba scene is edited heavily from bits and pieces of footage, but is there any chance of finding the complete scene in a consistent quality?
I'm constantly changing, swapping and upgrading the temp footage. So if I can find a better source I'll use it but the documentary battleship footage is the best I've got at present. Idealy I'd like to replace that footage with alternate sci-fi footage but I've not found any yet that would work better than a WW2 battleship to represent a DS. No the Jabba footage does not exist in better quality than that... maybe GL has a copy hidden somewhere ;-)
TK421138 said:
The cantina scene, while nicely done, could use some work my friend.
Yes others have said that. I spent hours and days getting it to that stage. I've had a breather now, so I'll be revisting that and try to match the sound better. I will be keeping the music, as otherwise the scene has no flavour for me. Before I lower the levels I need to do more work on constructing some bar-room sound FX. Their absence isn't noticable at present because of the music covering it.
TK421138 said:
I liked the added scene with Darth Vader and Bast's speech. I thought this little scene added a lot to the overall flow. However strong the editing of the audio is, at the end when Vader says "I shall not fail..." that line needs to be clearer and a bit louder so we can understand what is being said.
Yes, I (And others) have been back and forth trying to get that one right. Will keep working on it.
TK421138 said:
As Alderaan get's blown to smithereens, there is a bit of footage of Princess Leia standing there after the destruction of her planet where she says "And you call yourselves humans!"
Great idea. After I finish with the first draught of the edit I've always planned to review things like SWB, the radio dramas, DVD featurettes etc to hunt out anything else I could work in. There are lots of little clips from SWB that I plan to use.
TK421138 said:
You might do yourself a favor and read the fantastic Making Of Star Wars book by J.W. Rinzler.
On my Xmas list. But I have an online copy of the revised Fourth Draft of the script, from January 15, 1976 that I've been working from for scene placement.
TK421138 said:
Now to end with a silly question, the end your current cut fades out right before they enter the asteroid field/remains of Alderaan system. I noticed there was nothing representing the asteroids, rather just a fade to black. My question is, this was intentional right? This will obviously start part two then?
I will not be replacing the in-cockpit Asteroid shots as I'm going with the explanation that these were back projected on set (Which they actually did do, but went with blue-screen instead). So yes the fade to black is where part one runs out and part two awaits.
Again thanks for the feedback and in future if you happen to be watching a WW2 film or pre '77 Scfi-Fi film and spot something useful post it below!
^ Hint, I need a shot of a B-17 Flying Fortress doing this from somewhere??!?!?
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As for the scene with Alderaan exploding, there's a clip from the dailies in Star Wars: Empire of Dreams where you can see the cut where the planet disappears and here the director yell "BANG!" as the planet explodes. I don't know if you recall, but I think it would be an amusing piece for the workprint, especially the "bang!" line for the "purist" version. And you can also add that Leia line that TK mentioned.
Another good bit of advice I have is that if there are lines of dialog or music pieces where the volume fluctuates, GoldWave has a great "Volume Shaping" tool that can remove fade-ins/outs and allow you to draw the shape of the volume for bits or even entire tracks.
Ryan,
It was good to hear that you didn' take my critique to harshly. I think you did a fantastic job. I can't wait to view the second half of it, so if you need a second pair of eyes, count me in. I would ask where you are getting your soundtrack for the film from? In other words, are you using an isolated score track or the CD's? There are several great isoscores available from various members here so I just thought I'd ask.
Anywho, carry on, carry forward, Cary Grant!
Cheers,
Adam
Liking that Poster...
This is great work so far! Really enjoying watching this. It's strange how natural Star Wars feels as a 1930's-esque black and white film.
In the sake of constructive criticism, here are a few things I noticed.
- For the sake of consistency, the text in the temp. scenes doesn't flicker or have any telecine wobble like the rest of the video.
- The opening logo/crawl should only have one Star Wars logo. I don't remember which one it was in the original/real workprint. Maybe someone here does.
- The Star Wars themes in a bit too loud compared to the surrounding audio. Maybe bring it down about 10-15%.
- I'm not 100% sure, but I think the scene where Luke talks to his friend about him going off to join the Rebellion should come after the scene where he talks to Uncle Owen at dinner, since during that conversation he mentions being stuck there another season.
- This is more personal preference, but some shots, like some of the scenery in the Tuskan Raiders scene where Luke meets Ben, look far too sharp to be a faded workprint.
Can't wait to see the final product!
Thanks for the feedback, glad you enjoyed it.
Re Text: I'll have to check that. I'm working towards removing the text anyway.
Yer everyone says about the double logo. Haven't got a clue how I'm gonna remove it.
I'll be adjusting the music levels in future too.
Sure the biggs scene is in the right place. I went by the script.
The "Too sharp" shots were because I used Harmy's Despecialised Ed for the Tuskan scene because with those scenes the official Blu-Ray is beyond f*cked (Maybe only 50% of SW remains). Shows what a good Job Harmy did that you noticed even through several layers of scuzz.
I must pluck up the courage to tackle this beast again lol
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I've decided to scrap the work-in-progress on this one and start fresh. I've become dis-satisfied with the look of it and the poor quality of some of the source video. From here on in I'm wanting it as close to HD as possible.
This time I am...
- Scaling back some of the harsh contrast (From the last version)
- Leaving the original aspect ratio intact
- Inserting the deleted material where and when I feel is best (Rather than as the draft script dictates, as that didn't really work)
- Cutting it all visually first with no regard to sound
- Then constructing an FX track with no music (Somehow) *
- Then creating a music track from the rumoured temp music *
- Blend that all together
- Release that version
- Only then start work on replacing the visual FX shots
(*I may swap the order of these two stages as the music will be way more fun lol)
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I think this is a good idea. Although I like the first version, the changes you are implementing sound like they will bring this closer to the workprint version I envision in my mind. Let me know if you need someone to preview your progress.
^ Thanks. Anybody know a good program/tool etc to remove low level music?
For the loud stuff I'm gonna have to create a new soundtrack. But a quick fix on the scenes with only trace music would be handy.
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Here is a VERY ROUGH test of the new version...
(^ Click image to play)
Visually it's more or less there but the audio is unmixed, untouched and incomplete, so bare that in mind. I also haven't touched the crawl yet. It features...
- 3 temp music tracks
- 10 deleted scenes and alternate shots
- A number of re-arranged shots
- B&W and film-aging filters throughout to try and match in the material and approximate the fabled workprint
Hope you all enjoy it.
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I've always wanted to do a version of ROTJ that included the original opening, the original unedited John Williams score, and the scene of Luke jumping up to the Rancor grate.
I’m just here because I’m driving tonight.
I'm having another go at this project. I'm coming up to the half/third mark and have just done the scene in Obi Wan's home. I've recut the sequence in the original aka Adywan's order. I've cut it slightly differently to Adywan's version in a few shots and added a small deleted shot of Luke at the end...
(^ Click image to watch video)
^ Bare in mind that although the video is finished, the audio is just temporary and I will be replacing all the music (e.g. the new music won't step all over Luke's new final line).
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Has anybody done a convincing shot of the Deathstar jumping to hyperspace? I'm thinking of possibly featuring it in this edit if a good sequence exists.
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frank678 said:
Are you going to add in some of the new rinzler ebook clips to the project?
I thought that was just ROTJ. Is there ANH material too?
If it's of a decent enough quality I'll use anything.
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Holy monkey balls!!! I've now got the missing "camp greedo" dialogue that I had to (Badly) dub with my own voice in V1 of this edit... amongst other things.
Yay!
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frank678 said:
Are you going to add in some of the new rinzler ebook clips to the project?
What are these?
frank678 said:
sorry my formatting is all screwed up at the moment > http://starwarsblog.starwars.com/index.php/2013/10/21/exclusive-ebooks-videoaudio%E2%80%94complete-contents-revealed/
Wow the list of clips looks amazing. I want to see all that stuff.