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Religion — Page 40

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Bingowings said:

Dawkins said :

“One day – I must have been about 11 – there was a master in the gallery with me. He pulled me onto his knee and put his hand inside my shorts. He did no more than have a little feel, but it was extremely disagreeable … as well as embarrassing,” he told the publication. “As soon as I could wriggle off his lap, I ran to tell my friends, many of whom had had the same experience with him. I don’t think he did any of us any lasting damage, but some years later he killed himself.”

“I am very conscious that you can’t condemn people of an earlier era by the standards of ours,”"Just as we don’t look back at the 18th and 19th centuries and condemn people for racism in the same way as we would condemn a modern person for racism, I look back a few decades to my childhood and see things like caning, like mild pedophilia, and can’t find it in me to condemn it by the same standards as I or anyone would today.”

“The most notorious cases of pedophilia involve rape and even murder, and because we attach the label ‘pedophilia’ to the same things when they’re just mild touching up, we must beware of lumping all pedophiles into the same bracket,”

I don't read that as a defense of pedophilia rather a plea for balance.

He speaks from his own experience and has formed a general opinion.

Men, women and children frequently get touched in ways they would prefer not to. But to equate that with rape because the recipient is a child is noncesense.

A "balance" of what kind I wonder. That he doesn't feel irreparably harmed and that he suspects many of his classmates were not irreparably harmed means what exactly? I think his premise is flawed; I think people already recognize the difference between "mild touching up" and rape, they simply find both deplorable. Does he think some such crimes deserve a slap on the wrist? I do take issue with some ways that our society and legal system handles these issues...but his starting point is sketchy.

He is also making a statement about how we view the past.

Getting back on topic somewhat in Biblical times 12 year olds married 30 year olds.

If Mary and Joseph were real people this was probably their age range.

We don't approve now but it was the norm then.

The endurance of a meme says nothing about it's moral qualities.

Certain ethnic stereotypes have endured for centuries but that doesn't make them good or accurate.

Well maybe religion isn't so bad either :P

Dawkins spoke at my college and I told a friend later that Hawkins spoke at my college, that was embarrassing. Mormons and JW's do seem similar in some ways. The one thing I find admirable is that they do go out into the world to make religion just a thing that do in their heads and in churches. There are other ways of making religion real, of course. On Yom Kippur, I went to a synagogue and the sermon touched on what is happening in Syria and the history of Israel. Interesting to me when religion is tied to the world outside the church.

The blue elephant in the room.

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If the legal and cultural response to unwanted tactile contact with a child is way beyond the same offense to an adult where do you go with rape?

If you use the highest possible sanction against rape where do you go with multiple rapes or torture or multiple rape with torture and a side order of serial murder?

Israel began in 1948, it's one of those European made up countries like Kuwait.

As such it has less history than America and most of it is as horrid as countries a thousand times older.

Religion is a thing it's neither good nor bad in of itself beyond what people do with it.

It's irrational nature makes it easier for people to use it to justify doing unspeakable things but it also can be used to motivate people to do amazing things.

Like nationalism really.

And like nationalism people are irrationally attached to it.

You can believe in a god, pray, do charitable deeds etc without belonging to the exclusive club of a single religion or cult.

You can live in a country and even enjoy it without throwing yourself into pomp of patriotism.

All group allegiances lead to sectarianism (we see this console wars and 'franchise' wars).

Actions based purely on the outsider not being an insider.

That has to be a bad thing.

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      Awkins has obviously been GREATLY harmed by experiences in his environment. He has dedicated himself to the destruction of all external standards of ethics and morality and decency. Evolutionary Psychology is a license for ANYTHING. Rule by men and not by true Law is horrifying. What's wrong with a standard of old pervs keeping COMPLETELY away from underage and vulnerable kids? Why shouldn't they suffer great penalty if they refuse? I would agree that past and present societies have almost ligitimized it, but why not ADVANCE ourselves and clearly establish NO MORE! The "Liberals" and "Progressives" are bizarro and totally regressed to the most base, cruel, savagery. True cilivilization is a society ruled by strict LAW designed to create a space of decency with security for the children to develope.    Israel has a large Arab population that counts as citizens. One could argue that how we got to this state is "unfair", but I would rather be a voting Arab in Isreal than a denizen of Iraq, Syria, Egypt....
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So, what's up with that guy? ^

Bingowings said:

If the legal and cultural response to unwanted tactile contact with a child is way beyond the same offense to an adult where do you go with rape?

If you use the highest possible sanction against rape where do you go with multiple rapes or torture or multiple rape with torture and a side order of serial murder?

I don't get it. I don't really see what the problem is. Maybe someone else can help out. But here is an enlightened perspective that broadens the scale for you.

Israel began in 1948, it's one of those European made up countries like Kuwait.

Or Scotland for that matter.

As such it has less history than America and most of it is as horrid as countries a thousand times older.

I do wonder what peaceful nations you have in mind.

Religion is a thing it's neither good nor bad in of itself beyond what people do with it.

It's irrational nature makes it easier for people to use it to justify doing unspeakable things but it also can be used to motivate people to do amazing things.

Like nationalism really.

And like nationalism people are irrationally attached to it.

You can believe in a god, pray, do charitable deeds etc without belonging to the exclusive club of a single religion or cult.

You can live in a country and even enjoy it without throwing yourself into pomp of patriotism.

All group allegiances lead to sectarianism (we see this console wars and 'franchise' wars).

Actions based purely on the outsider not being an insider.

That has to be a bad thing.

I do think all the modern "communities" are absurd. Belonging and believing do not seem irrational to me.

The blue elephant in the room.

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Oh, good, another politics thread.  That said, cue CP3S chastisement for my intolerance of off topic discussions in 3...2...1...

I will admit, the Scotland line is a brilliant point.

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Mrebo, have you not read his crazy cat lady ramblings before?

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I can never bring myself to do it. It just looks crazy and I skip it. I read the first few sentences this time.

The blue elephant in the room.

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You're missing out.  Endlessly entertaining.

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I've had sex outside (I haven't made a public display of it and went to reasonable 'lengths' to ensure I wasn't been observed by anyone not involved).

I dare say some sexual activity gets noticed by children through sounds coming through walls.

Do we prevent these bad people living next to children from having sex?

Scotland has existed without a break since the early middle ages.

But yeah horrible history.

Religious persecution being a huge chunk of that.

Don't make the mistake of thinking I'm pro Scottish independence because I'm romantically attached to Haggis and Tartan.

I loath Westminster. I loath rich English politicians dictating without a mandate to poor people in Scotland decade in decade out.

I couldn't give a monkeys if Scotland wanted to call itself new Canada.

I don't believe I mentioned peaceful countries. The few countries that enjoy long periods without war tend to buy it by procuring deals to make wars elsewhere happen.

Dogmatic believing is irrational.

Be that God, King or Coin.

There aren't many religions that aren't dogmatic or at least strictly credonic.

Just believing (acting as if something is so on faith) is sometimes necessary but believing something and not stopping when the weight of evidence is against you, just because the club rules say so is the very definition of irrational.

Doesn't mean it's bad or wrong but it is irrational.

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thejediknighthusezni said:

      Awkins has obviously been GREATLY harmed by experiences in his environment. He has dedicated himself to the destruction of all external standards of ethics and morality and decency. Evolutionary Psychology is a license for ANYTHING. Rule by men and not by true Law is horrifying. What's wrong with a standard of old pervs keeping COMPLETELY away from underage and vulnerable kids? Why shouldn't they suffer great penalty if they refuse? I would agree that past and present societies have almost ligitimized it, but why not ADVANCE ourselves and clearly establish NO MORE! The "Liberals" and "Progressives" are bizarro and totally regressed to the most base, cruel, savagery. True cilivilization is a society ruled by strict LAW designed to create a space of decency with security for the children to develope.    Israel has a large Arab population that counts as citizens. One could argue that how we got to this state is "unfair", but I would rather be a voting Arab in Isreal than a denizen of Iraq, Syria, Egypt....

Back on the locusts and honey diet I notice.

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Leonardo said:

Unlike you.

Come here to [REDACTED] and say that to my face!

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Bingowings said:

I've had sex outside (I haven't made a public display of it and went to reasonable 'lengths' to insure I wasn't been observed by anyone not involved).

You can buy insurance for that sort of thing?  Interesting.

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TV's Frink said:

Leonardo said:

Unlike you.

Come here to [REDACTED] and say that to my face!

You have your moments. Not many of them, but you do have them ;)

The blue elephant in the room.

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Elderly bachelors are not really good at interior decorating or housework after all... they are secretly  MARRIED TO GENIES!!

I've never heard it called that before ;-D

Mr Crisp must have been a genuine bachelor though.

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twister111 said:

http://i39.tinypic.com/ftjzmt.jpg

 WHY CAN'T I STOP LOOKING AT THIS GIF?! WHY, GOD, WHY!?

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twister111 said:

*wonders if anyone would be interested in an "Ask the Jewish person" thread*


http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/7405/cooly.gif

 Forgot to respond to this.  If you are a practicing Jew, I know I would love to read (or watch gif posts) of such a thread ;)

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darth_ender said:

twister111 said:

*wonders if anyone would be interested in an "Ask the Jewish person" thread*


http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/7405/cooly.gif

 Forgot to respond to this.  If you are a practicing Jew, I know I would love to read (or watch gif posts) of such a thread ;)

 If you know your stuff fairly well and practice your religion, I know I've got some questions for you and would love to see such a thread.

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I think there should be a general Religion thread. That way the boards wouldn't be flooded with multiple religion threads and there would be more room for Political threads and threads with pictures cats that look like Sting in Dune.

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This isn't a General Religion thread?

Although I'm more of a Corporal Religion guy, myself.