What are you reading? — Page 13

Ryan McAvoy said:

IMO it stretches credulity to imagine that Card, who seems to have been writing novels for a decade before 'Ender's game', would not have a grasp of the meaning of words. Afterall, if I was writing a Sci-Fi saga I'd agonise for weeks over what to call the antagonists.

The fact that in the last decade he has apparently ret-conned the "Buggers" to have a different name "Formics" which he used becasue it is derived from the Latin for Ants, suggests he has a deep understanding of the meaning and entymology of words.

Or that he belatedly realized its potential for offense and started emphasizing a different term.  I have a much longer post currently saved.  I'll post it when I have a moment to finish it.

CP3S said:

What??? How have you guys never known what the word "bugger" meant? Its even made its way into American pop culture:

"<span>Very well, where do I begin? My father was a relentlessly self-improving boulangerie owner from Belgium with low-grade narcolepsy and a penchant for buggery. </span><span>My mother was a fifteen year old French prostitute named Chloe with webbed feet. My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy."

Most people here probably recognize this quote. If not, it is Dr. Evil's speech from the first Austin Powers. I hear Americans quote that all the time. It means his dad really liked engaging in anal sex.

Less antagonistic version of jerk or douchebag??? It is a really crass word. Even Webster's American dictionaries list it as vulgar slang.

You all seem to be obsessing over the word bugger (I mentioned it more as an example of irony that Card has been making tonnes of cash out of buggers like me for years).

Here is the man writing outside a science (but still mostly in fiction) context (more reading).

SilverWook said:

I honestly thought it meant thievery or something. Amazing that got past the censors.

A "Blagger" is a thief. Maybe that is the word you are thinking of.

I was enjoying Robert Llewelyn's 'News from Gardenia' until it stopped suddenly on a cliff-hanger.

I had no idea it was meant to be the first book in a series. Now I have to wait around while he writes the next one. in the meantime I'm re-reading his 'The man in the rubber mask'.

I'd read it years ago but this new edition promises something like 40% new content.

Ryan McAvoy said:

In British culture "Bugger" has almost no negative connotations anymore. It's a term of endearment if anything.

Same here. It is not really considered crass or vulgar - old ladies say it.

Popular advertisement in Australia

Indeed.

I thought the same until I was about 7 and I once used the word in that manner and got told off for bad language.

It is interesting that he chose that shape of alien and that name.

I imagine it was to forge a connection between Starship Troopers (the novel) and his own work as the two stories do contrast on the same subject matter.

When he does actually write about same sex relationships they tend to be predatory (almost exclusively from a child abuse angle) and/or hilariously tragic.

Well, I had a lengthy post half-prepared to post when I logged in today, but I think most people are confident Card meant nothing by using the word bugger.  Honestly, it's really a stretch to believe that was his intent.  I was watching Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone last night, and the captain of the Quidditch team calls one of the balls a "nasty little bugger," which I'm sure he intended to mean the ball would sexually assault Harry at the first chance it got.  Clearly Card meant nothing by the word, and if anyone has doubts, perhaps they should read the books instead of jumping to conclusions.  Even if Card knew the meaning, there is absolutely no indication he wanted to tie an outdated British term to it.  I imagine his audience would have a hard time taking his work seriously if he had written a book about the Sodomite Wars (the sodomites of course being large, mite-like aliens).  It's literally about the most stupid and ignorant conclusion one can draw.  Since Bingo was merely pointing out the interesting coincidence, I feel his understanding was most important, and I won't belabor that aspect of the discussion any further.

As for Card's actual views, I won't apologize for his ignorance and stupidity on the subject.  I still feel his views are not hateful--idiotic, yes, but not intended as hate.  Nevertheless, I would certainly understand your taking offense at his feelings, Bingo.

Ryan McAvoy said:

As I've said I suspect Card knew what it meant on some level. However, I'll concede that he may just have been using it in the Harry Potter way you mention, like "Damn", "Bloomin'" or "Bloody". For example if he'd done a series of books about wars with Vampires, his characters might have dubbed "Those bloody Vampires!" as "Blooders".

I honestly think that much is pretty clear.  It was a pejorative term, but not a reference to sexuality.  Bugger was not capitalized as a proper name, though Formic was.  Clearly it was slang, and meant to be insulting.  As you pointed out, he began to emphasize Formic later, possibly to avoid any connotation with the archaic term.

Interestingly, later in the series another sentient alien species is discovered.  They are given the proper name of Pequeninos, Portuguese for little children.  But they are nicknamed "piggies" (with a lowercase p) because of their pig-like snouts.  I doubt Card was making any statement about overweight people, or people with upturned noses, or perhaps little Portuguese fat kids.

And @CP3S, stop being a boob (by which I obviously mean you are a female anatomical body part) ;)  I'm not in denial over the meaning of the term despite my prior ignorance, but I find it impossible that anyone who has actually read Ender's Game would believe Card's intent was such.  The original story is over 30 years old, and it never became an issue till recently (since Card has made several statements on the topic in recent years).  As you say, educate yourself my good fellow, and read the book ;)

I still hear people using the word in the sexual context so it's not archaic (that would require the usage to be almost extinct like many of Lovecraft's eldritch terms were until he started using them again), it might not be familiar to many Americans but Card is a writer, if he can look up and deploy formic he may have deliberately have deployed bugger.

I don't think he did but it's not the craziest thing I've typed this week.

darth_ender said:

As you say, educate yourself my good fellow, and read the book ;)

Reading some piece of tripe sci-fi novel is hardly any worthwhile bit educating. I have better things to spend my time on.

darth_ender said:

Interestingly, later in the series another sentient alien species is discovered.  They are given the proper name of Pequeninos, Portuguese for little children.  But they are nicknamed "piggies" (with a lowercase p) because of their pig-like snouts.  I doubt Card was making any statement about overweight people, or people with upturned noses, or perhaps little Portuguese fat kids.

That would be understandable though, little fat kids with pig-like noses are the worst.

To be fair to Card's writing the Ender's books aren't tripe but they aren't going to teach you much (not like Robert Anton Wilson's works even if a good third of it is all lies...)

'Pigs In Space' hmm....I seem to remember that being done before.

Tripe is in the eye of the beholder.

I just don't find any appeal in typical sci-fi books. They have their charm, but I got my fill of them many years ago.

Even if you don't read the books, there is a lovely wiki article that wouldn't be too hard to find.

Here are the books I've read - and have tried to read - recently.

Dune by Frank Herbert

I really enjoyed this book. Strange thing is that I don't now what, exactly, it was about the novel I enjoyed so much; perhaps it was no single major thing - or things - but several small things working together.

I'm certainly going to buy a copy should I ever happen upon one, and I'm certainly going to go ahead and read the first sequel.

Fright Time #1 by various

Knowing this was a kids' book, I didn't go into it expecting stellar Stephen King-level material. Still, this has to be the lamest juvenile horror I've ever read, and I've read lots of R. L. Stine. Each of the three stories was weak - especially the second one, where a bunch of evil trolls and their robot annihilators(!) came out some artist's scanner.

Suffice it to say, I'm not keeping my copy, cool cover art notwithstanding.

Fright Time #11 by various

Unlike the above-mentioned entry in the series, this book actually contained some actually decent stories (the one with the albino ghouls was particularly interesting).

Unfortunately, it's not a book that I consider keep-worthy - especially in light of the limited shelf space I have available - so it goes.

The Death and Life of Superman by Roger Stern

The only reason I decided to buy and read this book was because I was hoping to get a version of the story that differed noticeably from the version told in the comics. Once I realised I was just getting the comics' story in novel form, I stopped reading; I've got better things to do (and read) than go over a story I've already gone over before in a more interesting format.

Star Trek: Strange New Worlds by various

I had an epiphany while reading through this book - I have no interest in any Star Trek EU that takes place outside of the TOS era, none whatsoever; and all but about five of the stories in this collection are TNG/DS9/VOY-centric.

So, with that in mind, I stopped reading and I plan on getting rid of my copy (along with Star Trek: Strange New Worlds II, which I also - stupidly - bought).

Independence Day: Silent Zone by Stephen Molstad

The story was interesting at first, by it lost its energy halfway through and ended on a flat note. It was nice to get some insight into the aliens' culture/history/technology, though, so it wasn't what I would call a waste of time.

On Writing: A Memoir on the Craft by Stephen King

I regret buying this book. Not because it was bad by any means - it was fairly entertaining and insightful - but it really isn't something I can see myself reading again.

All in all, I convinced more than ever I should take a book out from the library and read it before deciding to buy it.