One could introduce SD or other grand scale battle ships as last evolution of the Clone Wars - so before there where just smaller capital ships, like the size of the blockade runner, which isn't that large ...
On the other hand, technology doesn't need to be consistently improving, in history there where times of progress and then again "dark times" where all the advancement was washed away
Has anyone ever discussed changing "Sifo-Dias" in Attack of the Clones to "Qui-Gon?"
So we have a Jedi Master we KNOW who died ten years earlier? It would confirm that the Kaminoans claim that they were recruited by the Jedi was bullshit, and would help a little to clear up the stupid mystery plot.
Does anyone else fancy Topher Gracing the sequel trilogy as much as I do? That is, a lot?
I think we'd have a much better time trying to take the best parts of three movies and putting them in one (possibly quite long) movie, rather than trying to fix all three. We could focus completely on anakin's journey to being darth vader on top of a backdrop that is the seperatist war known as the clone wars.
When it comes to changing Sifo Diyas to qui gon I don't think that would add anything to the movies. The clones are only there as the tools for sidious to create the empire and take down the jedi, how would adding qui gon into that improve it?
EDIT: I've since had the idea that two movies would work far better, here you can download my pseudo script:
http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/A-Prequel-Duology/topic/15693/
Alot of you may have seen this already. He came up with some good ideas for EpI a while back....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAbug3AhYmw
Replace Hologram Sidious in Episode 1 with Count Dooku.
Akratus said:
Replace Hologram Sidious in Episode 1 with Count Dooku.
This easily can be achieved by leaving the dark hood, blacking out his face, and then changing the pitch of his voice.
It wouldn't make much sense.
It makes more sense that Dooku appear on the council in TPM (physically or in holographic form) and Sidious remain Palpatine, otherwise where does Palpatine's rise as a powerful force using dictator come from?
Bingowings said:
It wouldn't make much sense.
It makes more sense that Dooku appear on the council in TPM (physically or in holographic form) and Sidious remain Palpatine, otherwise where does Palpatine's rise as a powerful force using dictator come from?
That shouldn't change, just not so in your face like it was in the prequels. By having Dooku be "The Phantom Menace" you have a more interesting reveal in ep. 2. Palpatine was way too obvious. He would still play both sides the same way he always had, just not all stupid-like. Why the heck would you risk showing off your face in a hologram like that??? While you're looking at Dooku as "The almighty villian" you get taken back when he's killed so quickly in 3 allowing Palpy to make his rise to power.... And making it far more interesting.
mrbenja0618 said:
Bingowings said:
It wouldn't make much sense.
It makes more sense that Dooku appear on the council in TPM (physically or in holographic form) and Sidious remain Palpatine, otherwise where does Palpatine's rise as a powerful force using dictator come from?
That shouldn't change, just not so in your face like it was in the prequels. By having Dooku be "The Phantom Menace" you have a more interesting reveal in ep. 2. Palpatine was way too obvious. He would still play both sides the same way he always had, just not all stupid-like. Why the heck would you risk showing off your face in a hologram like that??? While you're looking at Dooku as "The almighty villian" you get taken back when he's killed so quickly in 3 allowing Palpy to make his rise to power.... And making it far more interesting.
Not to mention this way is far more feasible than trying to shoehorn Dooky into the council meeting where he has no spoken lines at all.
It's pretty obvious from the footage in TPM that Palpatine is the bad guy. I was expecting a real twist like the chancellor being a clone or a droid who is replaced by his Sith twin with it being so obvious.
That would be rather cool actually.
Imagine if Mace went to confront Palpatine and found a malfunctioning robot Chancellor instead
and turned to face Sidious cowled and ready for a game of lightning tennis.
Dooku as the phantom menace doesn't make any sense it adds nothing to the character.
I'm a real advocate of the deluded manipulated renegade Jedi Dooku because it makes real sense (it should have been Qui-Gon's arc).
Well, I've always thought that Dooku would work magnificently as a Jedi who believes that the only way to defeat the Sith, who are slowly overtaking the Republic, is to go on an all out war against it and take over.
Tragically misguided, lured into the Dark Side and not entirely a "hero" but rather a ruthless, dedicated leader with good intentions.
And the Separatists (who should have been formed at the beginning of Ep.I) could have been the twisted version of the Rebel Alliance.
Instead of poor but heroic rebels, the Separatists are initially rich and power hungry human and alien star system who eventually are united by the fear of an increasingly brutal Republic, and fighting for independence. Over the course of the movies you get to sympathize more with their cause, however flawed it was at the beggining.
Burdokva said:
Well, I've always thought that Dooku would work magnificently as a Jedi who believes that the only way to defeat the Sith, who are slowly overtaking the Republic, is to go on an all out war against it and take over.
Tragically misguided, lured into the Dark Side and not entirely a "hero" but rather a ruthless, dedicated leader with good intentions.
And the Separatists (who should have been formed at the beginning of Ep.I) could have been the twisted version of the Rebel Alliance.
Instead of poor but heroic rebels, the Separatists are initially rich and power hungry human and alien star system who eventually are united by the fear of an increasingly brutal Republic, and fighting for independence. Over the course of the movies you get to sympathize more with their cause, however flawed it was at the beggining.
Exactly.... and the ultimate reveal of Dooku / The Seperatists being right about a Sith Controlled republic totally twists the audience too... this whole time the Jedi have been fighting for the "bad guy" while Dooku was right to not trust the republic... I'm not even sure if you need Dooku to turn to the darkside... have him lead the order and maybe pick up so Dark Side tactics, ie: Lightning.... but I wouldn't call him a Sith
Dooku shouldn't be in league with Palpatine, he should be fighting against him the whole time... the Jedi can think he's a Sith, but this just hammers home how closed minded the Jedi's system had become, is what leads to their downfall, almost justifying Dooku's rebellious actions even more.... Come episode III, Dooku finally captures the Sith and can put an end to him, but alas, Anakin and Obi-Wan get to him before he gets a chance to expose him.
this also makes his lines make more sense....
"What if I told you that the Republic was now under the control of the Dark Lords of the
Sith? ... Hundreds of Senators are now under the influence of a Sith Lord called Darth Sidious."
Dooku knows whats up, and he's hoping that if any Jedi will trust him it will be Obi-Wan to who he has the mutual Qui-Gon relationship with.
he also doesn't want to kill the Jedi unless he as to....in the arena:
"Master Windu. You have fought gallantly. Worthy of recognition in the history archives of the Jedi Order. Now it is finished. Surrender and your lives will be spared."
I think it would be possible to twist these into "good intentions" by Dooku... and a lightsaber color change would reinforce things even more.
Papaltine meanwhile is just an opportunist who uses the threat of war as another chance to gain more power (and he finally has an excuse to use the Army he secretly ordered) , Anakin was always who he was grooming to be his apprentice after Maul... no Dooku in between...
ben_danger said:
Alot of you may have seen this already. He came up with some good ideas for EpI a while back....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAbug3AhYmw
This and the following video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Rkm9is1KDY
I really liked the idea how Obi-Wan should have been - a Jedi who is in doubt and at the end of his journey stands for the things the Order made good!
Anakin not a whiny teenager, more of a struggling symbol - and a test for Obi-Wan
One thing that bugs me and I guess others is if Luke is so important why does Ben leave him with Owen at all?
Why doesn't he start training him from the moment he can understand words (like any other Temple Jedi)?
Leia is hidden and maybe training them both would risk exposing their spare Skywalker but leaving Luke in the company of a guy so hostile to crazy old wizards and their crusades (for no reason) doesn't make sense currently.
Maybe if there was something mystical protecting Luke at the farm (like Shmi's ghost).
That could explain why Owen doesn't want Luke to spend too much time away from the farm (he seems to begrudge even his trips to Tosche Station).
How that could be injected into the PT is another problem.
Not unless you recast Owen or/and Beru and get them to say other lines.
The PT is so full of pointless exposition this is one instance where a few lines could have added colour and depth to the story.
What if the whole planet is avoided by Jedi and Sith because it dampens their powers or something.
Maul has to use probes, Anakin has lots of magic space bugs but still crashes pods.
It might prove the ideal place to hide Luke but the worst place to train him.
Bingowings said:
One thing that bugs me and I guess others is if Luke is so important why does Ben leave him with Owen at all?
[...]
What if the whole planet is avoided by Jedi and Sith because it dampens their powers or something.
Maul has to use probes, Anakin has lots of magic space bugs but still crashes pods.
It might prove the ideal place to hide Luke but the worst place to train him.
Genius!
Well Yoda and Ben both mention that the Force is the product of living things. So I guess desert planets and deep space could be weaker environments for Jedi perhaps?
I guess every fan-edit saga could have its own rules and lore.
I don't think the desert would work as a dampening field as the Force seems to work well in space and there isn't much life there.
In the OT we learn of places strong in the Dark Side and individuals strong in the Force generally.
Maybe Tatooine is just weak in the Force for reasons best know to itself.
Taking someone like Anakin or Luke away from that place would make their natural abilities spike after being held back for so long.
It could even explain why the Jedi don't find Anakin earlier and why he suddenly becomes such a jerk (he is like the weak nerd who suddenly grows bigger than those who bullied him at school).
Another way of injecting into the film could be by adding a couple of Jedi on the council who bring it up.
Another idea.
Replace both the Gungans and the Kaminoans with two or three guys in suits.
Make them the same people.
They live underwater on Naboo and are clones.
That way TPM represents the first Clone War and the war seen in AOTC and ROTS are the second Clone War.
Obi-wan then fought in the Clone Wars instead of one clone war.
Jar-Jar could be outcast because he was naturally born from two clones.
The Sith want the planet so they can make a clone army.
How's this for radical?
Make the jedi council and the republic the villains.
Make the Seperatists/Dooku the good guys.
The federation would be the beginnings of the seperatists, replacing sidious with dooku and replacing the dialogue it is set up that they attack naboo (changed to alderaan) in a political gambit, a desperate attempt to defy the fascistic leaders of the republic.
Qui-Gon Gin's actions in the movies have always been arrogant and counter-productive. We could explain this by making him an egotistical typ of character.
Think about this: The Sith have been extinct. They were hiding of course we know that, but there aren't many. The council believed them to be extinct. So the jedi are the only force users for hundreds if not thousands of years. And then there's a prophecy to bring balance to the force. And they think that would be in their favor!
It's all a perfect set up to switch the roles around, I would say.
Count Dooku's death in the third movie would have meaning to it, the story would be more emotional as the seperatists lost more and more, resulting in an utter defeat and complete ruination of the republic.
It's like with the rebels in the ot, but it goes the other way.
Akratus said:
How's this for radical?
Make the jedi council and the republic the villains.
Make the Seperatists/Dooku the good guys.
The federation would be the beginnings of the seperatists, replacing sidious with dooku and replacing the dialogue it is set up that they attack naboo (changed to alderaan) in a political gambit, a desperate attempt to defy the fascistic leaders of the republic.Qui-Gon Gin's actions in the movies have always been arrogant and counter-productive. We could explain this by making him an egotistical typ of character.
Think about this: The Sith have been extinct. They were hiding of course we know that, but there aren't many. The council believed them to be extinct. So the jedi are the only force users for hundreds if not thousands of years. And then there's a prophecy to bring balance to the force. And they think that would be in their favor!It's all a perfect set up to switch the roles around, I would say.
Count Dooku's death in the third movie would have meaning to it, the story would be more emotional as the seperatists lost more and more, resulting in an utter defeat and complete ruination of the republic.
It's like with the rebels in the ot, but it goes the other way.
This is an old idea. Also, to me it's the holy grail of prequel concepts. In fact I dare say it's amazing that Lucas didn't see this obvious idea.
I want to see the idea become a reality, and Ep. 2 is the easiest to begin the idea by simply making Dooku a rogue Jedi that saw where the Republic was going and decided the only way to deal with the situation was to oppose the republic. It even makes the Obi-Wan Dooku scene make sense when he reveals there is a sith in the senate.
The biggest obstacle for me is that there is no real payoff in Ep. 3. Or at least I can see how to make there be a payoff. Dooku dies in the first 15 minutes and in order for this idea to work there needs to be a "a-ha" moment where you learn that Dooku was a good man all along. But I can't see how to get that done.
I want to be wrong. Anyone have a different thought?
yes, maybe the "rescue" of Palpatine should have been in the middle, or even in the last part of Episode 3 ...
the real challenge is "the rise and fall" of Anakin Skywalker - it's a shame, that Lucas didn't make Obi-Wan the main character and let the story circle aound him ... showing "good intensions leading to bad things"
SO.
What if Geonosis had a Vortex Generator that allowed it to travel throughout space?
ben_danger said:
What if Geonosis had a Vortex Generator that allowed it to travel throughout space?
Bwuuuuuuhuuuuwhaaaaaaaaaaat?
sounds very ST to me ;-)
you thinking along the lines of "Project Hyperion" ?
hehe, and "Unicron" battles the Deathstar (or isn't he the same?)
I've been mulling the prequels over (AGAIN!) and trying to conciliate what's possible in editing/reshooting with what we know from the OT pre 1999, and I think I've come up with my most practical idea to date, whilst still keeping the reveal in ESB. It's a combination of existing ideas from myself and other members, most notably Bingowings' dissociative fugue concept - at least he's the first person I remember bringing this up.
Basically, when Obi Wan takes Anakin on as a student (Obi is not a student himself and Qui Gon, if he exists in said edit, is just a fellow Knight), we would have one of the council members make reference to Obi Wan's previous failed student. This could be done through filming new human council members (something the prequels sorely need) or alternatively through redubbing. They could elaborate and say the student turned to the dark side, but "failed" works also. This sets it up from the get go that Obi had an apprentice so we can immediately reference that line in ANH "Was a pupil of mine until he turned to evil" and assume it's this person.
Then when we meet Darth Maul, who either remains nameless or is called Darth VADER. It's revealed through redubbing or creative re-editing of existing dialogue that HE is the failed apprentice. Maul/Vader still kills Qui Gon, Obi still cuts him in half, but we get some kind of hint that he's not dead - whether it's shot of him dragging his torso away after his fall down the shaft or a full on rebuilding scene where you see him get some robot legs attached or even put in the Darth Vader suit. There are a lot of variables to consider and they all depend on resources available when shooting.
In the next film/s, Grievous would be scrapped in favour of Vader in full costume.
This is the point at which I'm not sure whether it's practical or doable, but Anakin would fight VADER. Footage of Anakin fighting (Dooku, Obi, droids, whoever) would have to be roto'd out and creatively superimposed into footage of costumed Vader swinging his saber (which would require the costumed actor to be fighting thin air).
Obviously, it would be really difficult to get them to appear to interact convincingly so you'd have to weigh up whether it would be better to just film a new Anakin actor (seeing as we're so limited by the Anakins we have anyway). That's more into the realms of a refilming rather than a re-edit with refilmed elements though, so I'll shut up about that for now.
In the Duel, Vader taunts Anakin with threats that after he's done with him, he'll kill his master and his loved ones. Anakin strikes Vader down in a rage.
He walks away.
The scene may get a bit 'visiony' like the 'force cave' in ESB. (or change in some way to make it seem surreal, like something isn't quite right)
Anakin turns just in time to see Vader rise up behind him and raise his saber.
We cut away to hear Anakin scream and then silence.
This is the point at which Anakin "dies" and "becomes" Vader, though the viewer doesn't know it at this point.
A first time viewer would think that Vader actually killed Anakin. A viewer who already knows will see it as a force-vision and an allegory all in one. Anakin, in giving into his hate, has taken up the mantle (and costume) of the Dark Lord.
From this point on, we see Vader committing atrocities in costume and no one need be any the wiser....