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PG-13 Revenge of the Sith — Page 3

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1. The effects in the PT are more complex than the OT. You think Coruscant could be created using models? I'm skeptical.

2. We all know ol' Georgie is obessed with CG... and quite a few effects are simply not up to snuff. But... what if the effects did look 100% realistic... would the PT end up finding something new to bash the films about?

I'm a borderline basher/liker... the PT has some clever ideas and an amazing look but it just doesn't feel like Star Wars to me. That's my main concern with the prequels, it has never been about the effects.
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GIVE ME CGI'D ATTACK OF THE CLONES YODA TO THAT CRAP LOOKING PUPPET FROM PHANTOM MENACE ANYDAY, BUT i DON'T THINK THERE'S A SINGLE SHOT OF YODA IN EMPIRE STRIKES bACK THAT NEEDS ENHANCING.
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Originally posted by: Faid
1. The effects in the PT are more complex than the OT. You think Coruscant could be created using models? I'm skeptical.

2. We all know ol' Georgie is obessed with CG... and quite a few effects are simply not up to snuff. But... what if the effects did look 100% realistic... would the PT end up finding something new to bash the films about?

I'm a borderline basher/liker... the PT has some clever ideas and an amazing look but it just doesn't feel like Star Wars to me. That's my main concern with the prequels, it has never been about the effects.


1- Matte painting.

2- Yes, the plot.

But I was thinking about it, and I've come to a sad conclusion: no matter what GL did, we would have the PTs, because they are not the movies we enjoyed, they are "something else". I mean, think about it, what would you do if you were asked to film the PTs? Would you do something better? I belive 90% of us here wouldn't...
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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It isn't really the plot of the prequels that needs tweaking.

It is more just bad diaglogue and wooden acting. Which is why Palpatine/Sidious scenes rock. George Lucas ought to be less of a control freak and let someone else write the screenplay and direct. But it's too late for that now, considering that ROTS has allready finished shooting.

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Originally posted by: justlnluck
Darth and Jaster, good posts. I'm glad to know I'm not the only one who feels this way.

Jimbo, you sound like a pretty intelligent guy, so it surprises me that you welcome digital enhancements and digital characters like the PT yoda. Now don't get me wrong, CGI is a great artform. I really enjoy movies like Finding Nemo and Toy Story. But no matter how "pretty" CGI is, computer graphics have yet to reach the point of realism where they fit seamlessly with live action video. While I'm watching a movie, I want to forget reality and be immersed in the story's environment. The OT is so beautiful because it brings us a whole universe filled with objects and characters that seem remarkably tangible and real. Half the reason I could not enjoy TPM and ATOC was because every time a CGI object appeared on screen (about every scene), I recognized it as fake and was jolted back into reality and out of the story. The CG characters are especially disconcerting. How are you supposed to invest interest in a cartoon character that is supposed to exist in a live action universe?

Today, I was watching ESB preSE today and for every spaceship, creature, building, etc, I tried my best to look for details that made it stand out as fake. It wasn't easy. The stop motion effects of a couple wanton (sp?) running scenes and a background at Bespin (matte painting) appeared fake, but that was it! I have so much respect for the modelers that worked on the starwars movies. Miniature models with good motion capture will beat out current CG effects everytime, hands down.

The great thing about the OT is that the story only included special effects when it was possible to make them look realistic. If it couldn't be done with realistic miniatures, the story did not include the scene. Sure it might be fun to see Yoda use a lightsaber and fight, but if this cannot be done realistically (ie with a muppet), then it is simply not worth it. Unfortunately, George Lucas apparently feels CG effects look sufficiently realistic and has lets his movies include scenes that can only be done in the computer. Not only this, but he also now draws in objects that COULD be done as superior looking miniatures!

Now I know that movie costs have risen dramatically compared to the late 70's, early 80's. Perhaps good modelers are too costly to hire? But what I found interesting is that on the ESB commentary track, a special effects commentator mentioned that it took 9 months to do all of the special effects seen in ESB. But now with the PT, which is 90% CG, it takes 2 years post-production to do add all the effects and scenery for each movie. Time is money and it would seem 2 years of CG would still be at least as costly as 9 months of modeling.


I feel the same way about digital effects as George does. It just looks better to me. It feels more alive and therefor more realistic. I first feel in love with digital effects after seeing the dinosaurs of Jurassic Park. I gurentee that if digital effects like that excisted in the 1970s the originals would be just as computer filled. Digital effects have fixed any problem or hardship in making a movie. It frees up so many limits. The Yoda fight kicked all ass. I love to death seeing that little guy fight. I felt like a kid again when I felt so full of life. Growing up with this character and then seeing him go out and show why he is the Jedi master was the absolute best. In my opinion seeing Yoda fight alone was worth the ticket price.
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But I was thinking about it, and I've come to a sad conclusion: no matter what GL did, we would have the PTs, because they are not the movies we enjoyed, they are "something else". I mean, think about it, what would you do if you were asked to film the PTs? Would you do something better? I belive 90% of us here wouldn't...


Well if there had to be six movies...

I would have expanded the OT into six movies and continue to release them every 3 years from 1977-1992. The relationships between the characters were rich enough to be fleshed out into many more interesting episodes.

I think many of us who were born around the time of the OT and grew up watching it shared a vision of the story and developed a feel for what the Star Wars universe is all about. The problem is, the story and style of the OT was not soley designed by George Lucas himself. There were many other creative talents that determined how the movie turned out including screenwriters that revised the original scripts, influential special effects team members, directors, and a talented cast who brought the story to life.

Unfortunately, George Lucas made enough money from these movies to buy the entire franchise and take total control and surround himself with yes men. In every interview in the "making of" the TPM or ATOC videos, all I hear are people saying how everything must be approved by George Lucas and how he is such a genius and what a wonderful vision he has. If all the creative input is coming from ONE person, no wonder the PT's are not anywhere close to the originals.

If the dialog sounded more realistic and flowed better, if the acting was as good as the OT, and if they only used miniature models, costumes, and actual sets...if they only used computers to clean up matte lines and enhance the realism of the miniatures, then we would have a MUCH better PT.
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I'm a huge CGI fan. Like someone said, Finding Nemo. YES. what a wonderful little flick. I've watched it more times than any full grown adult should admit to... however, I also watched the New Special Edition of Jedi yesterday. It's the only special edition that I refused to watch for the longest time. I tried a New Hope in the theater. Even got weepy when the STAR WARS flashed onto the screen. But the digital effects blew it for me.

Anyway, the ships in the new SE of Jedi, especially Jabba's ships, etc... they look like something from Toy Story. Which would be great if Star Wars was Toy Story. But it's not. Matting *can* look pretty crappy. We've all seen poorly done matting jobs, but at the very least, why not just clean up the mats with CGI (like Lucas did a bit anyway)? Why add new scenes of cartoon ships flying around?

Also, while watching Jedi, I remembered that the Ewoks weren't just muppets. Vicious little beasts. I found a new respect for them. Even the new song at the end wasn't so bad. I didn't even mind the Gungan thing. But the young force ghost of Anakin?? Did everyone take a bunch of acid before making that decision?


*Speaking of the Ewoks song at the end.. does anyone remember the rap song that someone put out right around 1983-84 that was based upon the Nub Nub song (or whatever it was called)? Was about Star Wars, I think. Any clue here?
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". I mean, think about it, what would you do if you were asked to film the PTs? Would you do something better? I belive 90% of us here wouldn't...



I fully disagree. Given the budget, resources involved (ILM, THX, ect), source material, and acting talent, I don't see how the prequels could possibly be any worse. There's a multitude of people out there (and here) who could have done better.
40,000 million notches away
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I first feel in love with digital effects after seeing the dinosaurs of Jurassic Park.


The CG in Jurassic park was ok. The raptors did look pretty realistic. But my favorite part of the movie, which scared me the most, was when Dr. Grant and the kids are attacked by the T-Rex outside of the jeep. This T-Rex was a full-sized motorized model that was so convincing because what we saw on camera actually existed in reality. It was tangible. If you watch near the end of the movie when the raptors are attacking the T-Rex, you will notice that the dinosaurs don't look as real because they were all drawn on the computer.

For me, CG objects still look too plastic-like to fit into live action scenes. Yes, CG gives a movie storyteller much more freedom in what scenes can be included and what type of characters can exist, but in a live action film, is it worth the sacrifice of realism?

I think watching a movie like the CG final fantasy movie is an awesome experience because it is amazing to see the amount of detail the artists were able to add to their drawings. But, for me, CG animation and live action film still exist as two separate artforms in two different realities.
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Originally posted by: jimbo
I feel the same way about digital effects as George does. It just looks better to me. It feels more alive and therefor more realistic. I first feel in love with digital effects after seeing the dinosaurs of Jurassic Park. I gurentee that if digital effects like that excisted in the 1970s the originals would be just as computer filled. Digital effects have fixed any problem or hardship in making a movie. It frees up so many limits. The Yoda fight kicked all ass. I love to death seeing that little guy fight. I felt like a kid again when I felt so full of life. Growing up with this character and then seeing him go out and show why he is the Jedi master was the absolute best. In my opinion seeing Yoda fight alone was worth the ticket price.


Looks like Astroturf...

Moll.

"Right now the coffees are doing their final work." (Airi, Masked Rider Den-o episode 1)

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Originally posted by: Molly
Looks like Astroturf...

Moll.


Ah! That explains it all!

Thank you, Molly!
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AOTC was the epitome of laziness when it comes to cgi. I can understand the need to cgi ships, and city scapes, as well as other things that would be too hard for stuntmen. But George was just cgi'ing for the sake of cgi'ing. It probably went something like this:

Crew: George, the guys are here to build the walls for Palpatine's office.

George: Uh, I've decided we're going to cgi them, so tell them to take a hike.

Crew: Well, we also have the guys who are going to build the floor for the Jedi Temple.

George: why would we want that when we can just cgi the floor?

Crew: And the guys are here with various alien costumes that look very real and took a lot of effort and creativity.

George: Hmmm, tempting, but this banking clan member costume just isn't Roger Rabbit enough for me. We'll cgi them.

Crew: once last thing, George. Ewan just got back from his vacation, and he shaved his beard.

George: I anticipated this, so I already have a guy working on cgi'ing read pubes onto his face. God my 'vision' kicks ass.
40,000 million notches away
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Originally posted by: Windexed
AOTC was the epitome of laziness when it comes to cgi. I can understand the need to cgi ships, and city scapes, as well as other things that would be too hard for stuntmen. But George was just cgi'ing for the sake of cgi'ing. It probably went something like this:

Crew: George, the guys are here to build the walls for Palpatine's office.

George: Uh, I've decided we're going to cgi them, so tell them to take a hike.

Crew: Well, we also have the guys who are going to build the floor for the Jedi Temple.

George: why would we want that when we can just cgi the floor?

Crew: And the guys are here with various alien costumes that look very real and took a lot of effort and creativity.

George: Hmmm, tempting, but this banking clan member costume just isn't Roger Rabbit enough for me. We'll cgi them.

Crew: once last thing, George. Ewan just got back from his vacation, and he shaved his beard.

George: I anticipated this, so I already have a guy working on cgi'ing read pubes onto his face. God my 'vision' kicks ass.


The reason why the floors are digital is because he didn't like the floor they built and it would have been a waste of time and money to reshoot the scene. Guys in masks look fake as hell. I want him to replace every cantina alien with one thats face moves when it talks. I do agree about the banking clan leader. Probably the only effect in Attack of the Clones.
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Originally posted by: Molly
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Originally posted by: jimbo
I feel the same way about digital effects as George does. It just looks better to me. It feels more alive and therefor more realistic. I first feel in love with digital effects after seeing the dinosaurs of Jurassic Park. I gurentee that if digital effects like that excisted in the 1970s the originals would be just as computer filled. Digital effects have fixed any problem or hardship in making a movie. It frees up so many limits. The Yoda fight kicked all ass. I love to death seeing that little guy fight. I felt like a kid again when I felt so full of life. Growing up with this character and then seeing him go out and show why he is the Jedi master was the absolute best. In my opinion seeing Yoda fight alone was worth the ticket price.


Looks like Astroturf...

Moll.


How dare someone have a different opinion than you!
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Originally posted by: JimmyJames
Well, ratings are quite subjective and meaningless. Lucas can make whatever he wants and pay off whoever he needs to to get a PG, if a PG is that important to him. I don't get why people think just because a movie is rated higher by the MPAA, it will be a better movie. Just because it's more violent doesn't make it better.


I DISAGREE. VIOLENCE MAKES A MUCH BETTER MOVIE...LOL


"I'VE GROWN TIRED OF ASKING, SO THIS WILL BE THE LAST TIME..."
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Spoken like a true horror fan.

Princess Leia: I happen to like nice men.
Han Solo: I'm a nice man.

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Originally posted by: ricarleite<br
If you think ROTS is going to be depressing, then watch some movies like "Magnolia", "Edward Scissorhands", or even better: watch "Threads", THAT'S depressing. You'll end up wanting to kill yourself.

I belive ROST might have a more serious tone, almost as serious as ESB. But still, it'll be the good old crappy CGI and plot extravaganza.


I don't believe it will be as depressing as a really heart breaker like The Day After or Awakenings but I definutly think it will be depressing on science fiction standards. We loose Padme. Shes a character I have fallen in love with. Seeing her die (no idea how since I go spoiler free). Alot of great characters are going to bite the dust and the galaxy will go down. Empire Strikes Back will look like Barney after seeing the dark storyline of Revenge of the Sith.
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I wouldn't be so sure about that Jimbo. I think This movies Darkness Quotient comesdown to doing Greivous and the death's of the Jedi's right. Mace Windu's death would kind of lose its edge if it is immediately followed by Jar Jar saying "How wude!" I know that was an extreme example, but think about it. Remember all of Threepio's bad puns during the Geonosis battle? And Kit Fisto's dumb smile? If Lucas can avoid his stupid impluses long enough to make a dark film, then RotS should rock.

And also, we don't know that Padme dies. It would be unlikely because she has to live long enough for Leia to have memories of her.

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Originally posted by: Darth Chaltab
I wouldn't be so sure about that Jimbo. I think This movies Darkness Quotient comesdown to doing Greivous and the death's of the Jedi's right. Mace Windu's death would kind of lose its edge if it is immediately followed by Jar Jar saying "How wude!" I know that was an extreme example, but think about it. Remember all of Threepio's bad puns during the Geonosis battle? And Kit Fisto's dumb smile? If Lucas can avoid his stupid impluses long enough to make a dark film, then RotS should rock.

And also, we don't know that Padme dies. It would be unlikely because she has to live long enough for Leia to have memories of her.


I belive GL will avoid all those cheesy moments. I still have faith on him, I mean, there are a lot of people working with him, they wouldn't let him take such a bad decision as Jar Jar making fun of Mace Windu's death...

Oh and Jimbo, "Threads" makes "The Day After" look like "Muppets take Manhattam". There is only one movie more disturbing: "Traces of Death 1"
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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Darth Chaltab, you forgot Jango Fett's ultimate goofy death. The look on Samuel L. Jackson's face after cutting his head off is priceless.
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Originally posted by: ricarleite
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Originally posted by: Darth Chaltab
I wouldn't be so sure about that Jimbo. I think This movies Darkness Quotient comesdown to doing Greivous and the death's of the Jedi's right. Mace Windu's death would kind of lose its edge if it is immediately followed by Jar Jar saying "How wude!" I know that was an extreme example, but think about it. Remember all of Threepio's bad puns during the Geonosis battle? And Kit Fisto's dumb smile? If Lucas can avoid his stupid impluses long enough to make a dark film, then RotS should rock.

And also, we don't know that Padme dies. It would be unlikely because she has to live long enough for Leia to have memories of her.


I belive GL will avoid all those cheesy moments. I still have faith on him, I mean, there are a lot of people working with him, they wouldn't let him take such a bad decision as Jar Jar making fun of Mace Windu's death...

Oh and Jimbo, "Threads" makes "The Day After" look like "Muppets take Manhattam". There is only one movie more disturbing: "Traces of Death 1"


Again Revenge of the Sith will be as serious as possible. Jar Jars role will be even smaller then it was in Attack of the Clones. His role in Attack of the Clones was a huge improvement. In the Phantom Menace most of Jar Jars dialog and behavior served no purpose besides making a few kids laugh. Jar Jars smaller role in Attack of the Clones had ten times as much importance to the Star Wars storyline as his entire long Phantom Menace role. These movies are getting progressively more mature. Also Padme has to die. I don't remember her in A New Hope. Leaving her alive would leave a huge hole not explaining the fate of a very important character. Never saw Threads but The Day After freaked the fuck out of me. Thinking about that movie still sends chills up my spine.
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I think Anakin will kill Padme. I just checked out the latest Episode III photo update on Hyperspace and it shows Anakin all pissed up close with Padme. There are also a bunch of what look like finished shots that lend cretins to your whole darkness theory. Save for the interior of the blockade runner, all the places look dark in this movie.
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Originally posted by: Darth JustinThere are also a bunch of what look like finished shots that lend cretins to your whole darkness theory.


Credence as in credentials.

A Cretin is what Jimbo is.

Sorry to nitpick but it was too excellent an opportunity to pass up.

Carry on.
"The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country." - Goering.

"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it." - Goebbels.

"In times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." - Orwell.
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The Yoda fight kicked all ass. I love to death seeing that little guy fight. I felt like a kid again when I felt so full of life. Growing up with this character and then seeing him go out and show why he is the Jedi master was the absolute best. In my opinion seeing Yoda fight alone was worth the ticket price.


you felt like a kid again?
so like 3 or 4 years ago.....
growing up with this character????
when did you become a senior citizen??
lol

astroturfer... hehe
thx molly
"Never. I'll never turn to the darkside. You've failed your highness. I am a jedi, like my father before me."