Doctor Who — Page 26

I noticed that back when both shows were on.

Sadly Liz Sladen died of cancer but only after helping to find the Whovian race a new home amongst the stars.

A shining planet called Cardiff.

Dimensional transcendentalism does not defy the laws of physics as they are currently understood.. it's beyond the technology available to you today.

But as a TARDIS is a time machine you can just assume it has happened and get inside and travel back in time and tell yourself how you did it.

Here's one around the corner from me.

I have been doing some thinking about upcoming 50th Anniversary special.    I believe it has been confirmed that there is an unknown doctor, and he comes before Matt Smith's doctor.  A self that for some reason, the doctor pretends didn't happen.   It sounds like either this unknown doctor comes before the 1st doctor or comes between the 8th and 9th self.    In any case, that would make Matt Smith's doctor, the 12th doctor.   The Valeyard has been mentioned in the new series.    According to "Trial of a Time Lord",    The Valeyard is an amalgamation of the doctor's darker nature, sometime between 12th and 13th self.   Matt Smith has announced that he is leaving the show.    His regeneration in the next doctor, could be very interesting . . .

Warbler said:

it sounds like either this unknown doctor comes before the 1st doctor

don't think so. this doctor broke the promise to be "doctor"-y, and it seems unlikely that the first incarnation of the Doctor would break a promise he just made (got his name).

then he must come between Paul Mcgann and Christopher Eccleston.

The Valeyard was a creation of the Time Lords (they manipulated the Doctor's future and then projected him into his then present). 

When that happened he became a separate being, this seems to be the same being.

He is clearly Chris Ecclestone's stand in.

They couldn't get the survivor guilt ridden ninth Doctor so they invented a new one.

They should have got Paul McGann instead,

greenpenguino said:

Bingowings said:

The Valeyard was a creation of the Time Lords (they manipulated the Doctor's future and then projected him into his then present). 

When that happened he became a separate being, this seems to be the same being.

He is clearly Chris Ecclestone's stand in.

They couldn't get the survivor guilt ridden ninth Doctor so they invented a new one.

They should have got Paul McGann instead,

Why on earth didn't they???? McGann is my favourite Doctor. :-/

He wants to do it too. I think they should have gone with him instead of Ecclestein anyway.

I believe it is Eccleston, not Ecclestone.

Or Ecclestein

I recently watched the one set on the holiday planet with a deadly surface...

Q: What Midnight?

The one with the avaricious lizards using human skin suits to disguise themselves as politicians.

Q: What Aliens Of London?

The one where the Doctor gets aged by hundreds of years.

Q : What Last Of The Time Lords?

The one where the villain duplicates himself thousands of times over with a device designed to heal an entire planet.

Q : What The End Of Time?

The one where K9 blows himself up.

Q: School Reunion?

The one where the villain is rejuvenated to the point of infancy?

Q: Boom Town?

A: No The Leisure Hive.

My theory is that Hurt is the 8th Doctor. This would also explain why McGann is excluded from the 50th, even though he has always been overly desperate to continue his role as The Doctor in some way or another. If they wanted McGann in the 50th, they had him.

I know there are a lot of eighth Doctor fans around, and there have been many books and audio dramas continuing the eighth Doctor's story... But let's face it, the eighth Doctor was a huge misstep. It was a really, really, really, really, really shitty made for TV 90's movie that didn't even bother to follow established Who continuity (stating that he is part human, and some other departures from established lore). They also portrayed The Doctor as a bit of a buffoon, showing him puzzled by earthly things and habbits, I guess to drive home the point that he was an alien to American audiences. The whole thing was absolutely awful. I think the reason why eighth Doctor stuff is kind of popular is because it was a whole wasted regeneration of the Doctor, wide open blank pages, just about anything could be done during it, so why not capitalize on that with novels, comics, and audio dramas? But that stuff isn't canonical. Is the crappy made for TV movie even canon? I mean, we see McGann's face flashed on the screen in a couple of Smith's episodes when they are trying to remind us of old Doctors, in the first Smith episode, and that last one with all the flashback bits. So yeah, it is established that McGann was the 8th, but is anything we know that was done by the 8th solid continuity? The movie can't be, because it is contradictory (and just plain sucked, even by RTD era standards), and the books are essentially expanded universe.

So, my theory is that time locking of the Timelords and the Daleks and all the things that happened that gave 9 and 10 their brooding survivor's guilt ridden aspects were done by the 8th, and John Hurt is McGann all grown up. The 8th Doctor, as far as the TV show is concerned, is still a bunch of blank pages they can do anything with.

It fits with everything we know, and explains the exclusion of McGann*. He was a previous Doctor who rejected the title Doctor and did some pretty terrible things, which he says he had no choice in. Time War, awful things, eventually regenerating into brooding Eccleston who got back on track as the Doctor, but still had to live with the stuff done by 8. 

*Of course, the exclusion of McGann could also be explained by that movie being so absolutely terrible that nobody wants to have to be reminded of it. Even the worst bits of Doctor Who since its 2005 revival are significantly less difficult to watch than the entirety of that atrocity of a "film".

The TVM was pretty bad but no worse than Rose (the episode not the character).

The Eighth Doctor was just as good as the the Ninth (you just have to listen to any of his Big Finish stories to get how a better story could have carried that persona a fair distance) with the added benefit of being played by an actor who had already been through the fan thing and would be so prickly as to avoid a major anniversary episode because the show is a bit silly but take on a minor role in a comic book movie.

He could have worn his current new look garb :

and have done all the same survivor guilt stuff the Eccethump did and not be the George Lazenby of Who.

doubleofive said:

Hurt is definately playing the Eight and Half-th/Time War Doctor. I don't understand why 11 would be denying his existence when 9 pretty much said that he himself pushed the button and 10 had to deal with the consequences too. RETCON!

Sounds like we are thinking along the same lines. I feel like that is the only way it will work without being overly convoluted and silly or nonsensical, not that the show is afraid of convoluted or silly or nonsensical...

When 9 pretty much said that he himself pushed the button, it doesn't have to mean he did it in his 9th incarnation. It could be that both 9 and 10 were dealing with the consequences of the things done as 8, and that 11, being a bit more childlike and naive than 9 and 10 rejected this, rather than brooding about it, and denied his existence. 

Not necessarily a huge retcon, since we are dealing with uncharted space as it were. I mean, obviously it is a retcon, but not really an offensive one. I am sure RTD meant for it to have been Eccleston that did those things, but he was very vague about the Doctor's new Time War back story for his entire run, before all of it was magically forgotten and never referred back to or dwelled upon after Moffatt took over (kind of like how RTD's constant barrage of alien invasions of Earth were also forgotten and written away in a half assed manner). However, in the first episode, or one of those first episodes, Eccleston's Doctor looks in the mirror, plays with his ears a bit, and makes a comment on the way he looks. Kind of gave the indication that he was "newly minted".

I'm interested to see the 50th (for Tennant) and maybe the Christmas special just to close the book on 11, but I'm not sure I'm going to watch past that, or at least I won't make an effort to watch it until its on Netflix.

I feel like I am done with it too.

I realize that I started watching Doctor Who because some pretty girl once told me to and it gave us something fun to talk about, I kept watching because of David Tennant, and couldn't stop watching because of Karen Gillan*...

That pretty girl, David Tennant's Doctor, and Amy Pond are all things of the past... I skipped a bunch of episodes last season, and the few I did watch (which included the finale) didn't hold my interest. Having invested my time in six seasons of the show, I'm kind of looking forward to seeing Tennant in the 50th, and curiosity will probably get the better of me come Christmas, but from there, I think I've already checked out and can't be bothered.

*Fine! Arthur Darvill deserves some credit too! While not as fun to look at as Karen Gillan, the characters of Rory and Amy are what made the show so fun to watch for the last two and a third seasons. Things fell entirely flat after their departure.

Bingowings said:

He could have worn his current new look garb :

and have done all the same survivor guilt stuff the Eccethump did and not be the George Lazenby of Who.

His "current new look garb" predates the 2005 revival of the series. If I am not mistaken, that picture of him in the jacket with the sonic screwdriver is back when he desperately wanted to play the Doctor in the then upcoming new series.

As silly and awful as most of the series one nuWho episodes were, I kind of fell in love with Eccleston in that role. He was goofy, fun, intelligent, and formidable. I am pretty disappointed that he won't be in the 50th. McGann on the other hand... I guess I just can't get the awful taste of the 1996 telemovie out of my mouth.

I tried to listen to one of the Big Finish stories, but I just couldn't get into it. Doctor Who has kind of been a passive interest for me, something I watch in the background while doing other things, for the Big Finish stories, I found my ADHD self unable to focus on them enough to get anything out of them.

It really sucks for McGann, he got a short straw. Imagine scoring such an iconic role in what was meant to be the revival of a well loved series, only to find yourself starring in an absolutely awful film and that being the end of it. You hold onto hope for years that maybe there will be another attempt at bringing back the series and that maybe you'll still get your chance, and finally after so many years it looks like it might be coming a reality, only for the role to be recast out from under you. Salt to the wound: after ten years of you dying to get your chance as the Doctor, appearing at conventions, and making efforts to bring the show back, the new guy who steals the role from you quits one series in and want nothing to do with the series ever again.

But then again, could McGann have really pulled it off? He played a really boring and wooden Doctor. All the previous actors who played the Doctor seemed to have brought something to the table, made the character their own and into something interesting, some more so than others. McGann's Doctor just didn't stand out.

The new look dates to 2010 so it's not an attempt to get on the show but more an attempt to adapt his incarnation to the story of the new show (prepare him for the war to come). That and they ran out of old images from the TVM for the covers of the books and audios.

WETA even made a new sonic for him:

I like Chris as an actor but he was a big mistake for something like Doctor Who.

A Doctor like the Ninth Doctor was a good idea but Paul McGann could have played him.

He is a proper actor and he has his Liverpool accent if he was stuck in the jacket and teamed up with Billy for a year or two the effect would have been almost the same.

In my view one of the best ever Doctor Who stories in any medium is the Eighth Doctor story The Natural History Of Fear.

The McGann/Sheridan Smith Pairing is much better than the Billy Piper/Tennant pairing in my view.

If it is an ADHD thing why don't you get an instant hit of burping dustbin and Noel Clarke doing Max Headroom with John Travolta's spray on hairdo everytime Eccehomo comes on the show?

Say what you will about the Eighth Doctor but at least he never said the word "farting" on screen.

Bingowings said:

If it is an ADHD thing why don't you get an instant hit of burping dustbin and Noel Clarke doing Max Headroom with John Travolta's spray on hairdo everytime Eccehomo comes on the show?

Say what you will about the Eighth Doctor but at least he never said the word "farting" on screen.

I thought Eccleston was great, it was just the episodes and companions he was stuck with that sucked (okay, so I actually really liked Jack, so make that companion singular for the ever annoying and unlikable dyed blond Rose with her dark eyebrows and roots).

As for the ADHD thing, it is just hard to stay focuses on things like radio dramas unless they pull me in. Especially since I tend to listen to things like that while doing other things. Radio dramas usually hold my attention, and I listen to audio books constantly, but for some reason I just found myself tuning these out and wishing I was listening to something else.

I'll make it a point to check out The Natural History of Fear.

Try to avoid spoilers for it though because it has certain unexpected moments.

The BBC seem to be better at using homegrown talent with the DVD extras but if they used this chap maybe the multi-Doctor scenes would have been better.

I don't think for a minute that John Hurt would be playing 'the Doctor that time forgot' if EcceEcceFt'angFt'ang had signed up to be in the anniversary.

The idea was to have three Doctors and when Chris said no they invented a new one rather than going with the one that already exists, wants to be in the show again and has only been used on screen once.

It's not a celebration of 50 years of Doctor Who, it's a celebration of 8 Years of NuWho which would be a brilliant idea in two years time but maybe the show won't be on air then???

Moffat is probably not to blame here.

The BBC is under attack from all sides a lot of the politicking is all behind closed doors.

Moffat has to present a facade of being in control of the seven episode a year Doctor Who and the three episode a year Sherlock because of the interest in both shows but in reality British institutions like the BBC are crumbling. in a boom time both shows would have at least 13 episodes and would be rather good.

The 'Mos Eisley Song Contest' episode had nothing to do with telling a story but everything to do with selling action figures and as Star Wars fans we know what that means to a series we love.