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All Things Star Trek — Page 18

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 (Edited)

Spock's arc is sometimes overlooked. He's left Starfleet and his closest friends in pursuit of ridding himself of emotions. He's on the verge of reaching that goal when he senses V'ger.

It takes a mind meld with same to realize his human half, and all the illogical baggage that goes with it, does have value. (Scenes in the longer version bear this out.) The post TMP Spock seems to be more at peace with himself.

 

All these years later, I'm still boggled the movie got a G rating. The transporter accident scene is enough to give me nightmares!

Where were you in '77?

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Bingowings said:

Exploring is exactly like TMP, long meanders leading to the occasional astonishing vista, not a perpetual race through Dutch angled daisy cutter explosions, like the JJ films ...

 

I agree.  While I like the first JJ film a lot and find the second one ok, they're bordering on getting away from exploring outer space.  I get that with the first one, but the second was a bit much.  Now that they're set up for the five-year mission, I'm hoping they get back to getting way out there and exploring the dark unknown.

 

There is as much story in the TMP as TWOK it's just not as quotable and amusing or camp.

I agree here even more.  I know it's sacrilege, but I don't care for The Wrath Of Khan.  Montalban is constantly chewing the scenery.  To me, it's almost laughable at times.  Maybe I need to give it another look.  It's probably been twenty years since I watched it.

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SilverWook said:

Spock's arc is sometimes overlooked. He's left Starfleet and his closest friends in pursuit of ridding himself of emotions. He's on the verge of reaching that goal when he senses V'ger.

It takes a mind meld with same to realize his human half, and all the illogical baggage that goes with it, does have value. (Scenes in the longer version bear this out.) The post TMP Spock seems to be more at peace with himself.

The Spock arc is the only reference to TMP made after the film (beyond recycling special effects).

In TWOK Kirk has moved on from his competition with Decker and shows great reluctance to steal command from Spock.

Spock being Spock claims to be logical (everyone knows Vulcanians are as logical as humans. Why not discuss your potentially homicidal breeding habits with the chief medical officer or have it common knowledge for that matter and book shore leave for that embarrassing time of the decade???).

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Bingowings said:



Spock being Spock claims to be logical (everyone knows Vulcanians are as logical as humans. Why not discuss your potentially homicidal breeding habits with the chief medical officer or have it common knowledge for that matter and book shore leave for that embarrassing time of the decade???).
Especially since its almost common knowledge on NX-01, but that's more a flaw with Enterprise than anything else.

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FanFiltration said:

darth_ender said:

Weren't there several different versions of TMP released?  What are they and which is best?

My "Special Longer Version" using letterbox footage from multiple sources. All released versions had been P&S.  *Grin*

Snatched! :)

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doubleofive said:

 

Bingowings said:



Spock being Spock claims to be logical (everyone knows Vulcanians are as logical as humans. Why not discuss your potentially homicidal breeding habits with the chief medical officer or have it common knowledge for that matter and book shore leave for that embarrassing time of the decade???).
Especially since its almost common knowledge on NX-01, but that's more a flaw with Enterprise than anything else.

 

Spock said in Amok Time he hoped he would be spared going through the Pon Farr. (Probably because of his human half.) That indicates to me it was his first time experiencing it.

Where were you in '77?

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Better than the alley fight in They Live? ;)

Where were you in '77?

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I just LOVE the first Trek movie. Yes, it is too slow for a modern audience, but still it's visually impressive. And great to watch when you're stoned :-)

The Director's Cut is however a MUCH better cut, it has much better pacing.

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SilverWook said:

Better than the alley fight in They Live? ;)

Nothing is better than the alley fight in They Live. ;)

“Grow up. These are my Disney's movies, not yours.”

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Forgive my ignorance, as I haven't seen the Director's cut in five years, so my memory is a bit fuzzy, but, having now watched the original, I honestly didn't find much difference with the pacing.  If anything, the original seemed faster paced, as the Director's Cut made the overture even longer, and the original is lacking Ilia's random magical Chekov healing powers.  Also, I liked the original effects of the crew walking to V'Ger as opposed to the pixie dust bridge the Director's Version added.  But like I said, my memory of it is not good enough to make that judgment.  I just remember watching the Director's Version and thinking, "Geez, they say the pacing here is much better than the original cut.  How would I ever make it through that?"  But it certainly didn't seem any worse to me.

Okay, so now I've watched this movie twice in two days, the second time with commentary, and I am now ready to deliver my full opinions.  Well, to be honest, they're not much different from the thoughts I gave earlier when I was halfway through the film.

As I already said, I have enjoyed my time with this film, more so than I ever have before.  It is a beautiful film, and I appreciate it even more now that I know I'm seeing what was accomplished in the late 1970s and not having to wonder if this was something made decades later with the Director's Edition.  I would contend that no Star Trek film since has matched the impressive visuals of this film.  There are a few effects that don't hold up, but for the most part, there is a level of detail and majesty that looks perfect even today.

Also, as I said before, the amount of detail in regards to ship functions and ship locations is second to none in this movie.  I love getting to see the sonic showers and the rec room and the sickbay and all of its readouts, the thruster suit and all of its controls, the fact that the chair heads move up and down and the arm rests fold in for protection.  It's a nerd dream come true.  You really don't get to know the ship as well in the future films.

There is a really nice tone to this film.  It feels so different from any of the others.

That said, I still believe all of the above is definitely at the expense of telling a story and that the piecemeal way in which this was constructed definitely shows.  In many ways, it seems they were more interested in showing cool things than having a story happened.  Two of the most interesting and engaging sequences in the film are, in my opinion, the transporter accident and the wormhole journey.  However, neither of them have anything to do with the story (well, the former is a bit of an excuse to get Spock in the picture, but he was already on his way long before Sonak got turned into goo).  And it just seems they're there because they're things they couldn't have done on the television series.  That incredibly self-indulgent feeling permeates this film.  "We've never seen the Enterprise from 147 different angles.  Let's do that!  We've never seen someone killed by the transporter.  Let's do that!  We've never seen Kirk dressed like he's going to play tennis.  Let's put him in that for half the movie!"  Okay, that last one is obviously a jab at their terrible uniforms in this movie, but you get my point.

Up until the last 40-45 minutes, this movie feels incredibly padded (mostly by shots of the characters looking at stuff), because I just don't think there's enough story here to fill out 2 hours.  What story there is is very interesting, and it really does start to get good in that last stretch.  But all of that cool nerd stuff I mentioned earlier really seems to be there to distract you from the fact that the story's not going anywhere.

Finally, as for the characters, I do enjoy Spock's journey, and I give it a little more credit than Nimoy himself did (then again, Nimoy gave his approval to the Abrams films, so what does he know? ;-) ).  And, as I've already said, I enjoy the rivalry between Kirk and Decker, and Kirk is presented as an interesting, flawed person.  However, that's really only resolved by Decker disappearing, which is rather disappointing.  And while I like Decker, his decision at the end seems almost completely unmotivated.  He never expressed any kind of desire to reach a higher level of consciousness or make sweet, sweet love to a computer.  And it's in that moment that I realized I didn't really know Decker well enough to know what the hell it is he wants.  Well, the best I can come up with is, "Shit.  This is the worst day ever!  I lost my ship.  I got demoted.  My girlfriend got killed and replaced with a robot.  Fuck this.  I'm going to become a god and cast down my vengeful wrath on all you assholes!"  But from a production standpoint, it very much reeks of giving the film a personal cost but only by doing away with the expendable characters.  As for the rest of the cast... they're there.

To sum up, I can definitely understand why Jimmy Doohan fell asleep during the premiere.  This is one of the best examples of proving that a film can't stand up with just special effects, and there is a ridiculously high level of special effects.  They suffocate this film.  The plot meanders, and we're expected to be impressed because the movie looks impressive.  But it just needed more story.  But I did find it enjoyable, more so than I ever have before, and I'm glad to finally have it in my collection.  Thank you, Walmart, for packaging these two movies together so that I could pick up these original versions up without having to buy all the other movies that I already own.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Ilia was killed and replaced with a robot, a robot so well made that Ilia came back out of the robot.

She's inside the 'probe' of the 'intruder'.

I've been reading a lot of Rudy Rucker recently and this is exactly the sort of casual mindfunge he throws into his work.

The end of the film is essentially a three way bonking scene.

Decker, Ilia and V'ger getting it on and giving birth to God.

Kirk entering his ship is another such sex scene by proxy and the Enterprise orbiting and entering the V'ger vessel is a sex scene by double proxy with a lot of foreplay.

It's much more naughty than having Carol Marcus reveal her pants to camera for no explicable reason.

 

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Bingowings said:

It's much more naughty than having Carol Marcus reveal her pants to camera for no explicable reason.

Oh, believe me.  I definitely agree with that.  While I don't think TMP is as intellectual as its followers think, it's certainly leaps and bounds over the idiocy of the Abrams films.  I just think they both rely too heavily on special effects.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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 (Edited)

Also I should mention, and this is no fault of the movie, is that, on this release at least, the Klingon and Vulcan subtitles are player generated and look like crap.  Is that across the board on this transfer?  I absolutely loathe that.  And to make it even worse, I popped in the disc for TWOK, and the Vulcan subtitles there were the original, real subtitles.  Why, why, why?!

I will say, as terrible as they look, they're one step above the Star Wars subtitles in that they're at least in the frame of the film rather than in the matte.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Bingowings said:

Ilia was killed and replaced with a robot, a robot so well made that Ilia came back out of the robot.

She's inside the 'probe' of the 'intruder'.

I've been reading a lot of Rudy Rucker recently and this is exactly the sort of casual mindfunge he throws into his work.

The end of the film is essentially a three way bonking scene.

Decker, Ilia and V'ger getting it on and giving birth to God.

Kirk entering his ship is another such sex scene by proxy and the Enterprise orbiting and entering the V'ger vessel is a sex scene by double proxy with a lot of foreplay.

It's much more naughty than having Carol Marcus reveal her pants to camera for no explicable reason.

 

Not to mention Spock's little trip through the V'Ger "orifice".

I am never going to look at this movie quite the same way again.

Where were you in '77?

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Gaffer Tape said:

Also I should mention, and this is no fault of the movie, is that, on this release at least, the Klingon and Vulcan subtitles are player generated and look like crap.  Is that across the board on this transfer?  I absolutely loathe that.  And to make it even worse, I popped in the disc for TWOK, and the Vulcan subtitles there were the original, real subtitles.  Why, why, why?!

I will say, as terrible as they look, they're one step above the Star Wars subtitles in that they're at least in the frame of the film rather than in the matte.

Now your last comments are very interesting to the nerdy part of me. I have the theatrical cut on two medias - one grainy old 4:3 VHS tape and the Bluray version. None of these 2 releases have the instrumental intro or the original Klingon & Vulcansubtitles.

 

Was there ANY release of the theatrical cut which had both the intro and the subtitles ?

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BTW does anybody have the audio commentary to the Director's edition of TMP? I know it was freely available on startrek.com and I'm pretty sure I downloaded it, but I can't find it and it's not online anymore

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PM-ing you a link. I'm assuming it'd be OK to post since it was freely available, but I'll be safe.

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Would you mind PM-ing me as well?  I'd also love to hear that.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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SilverWook said:

Better than the alley fight in They Live? ;)

The alley fight in They Live was brilliant. The whole film was brilliant.

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TV's Frink said:

I like subs in the matte.  Easier to read.

I don't mind subs in the matte if they're the hearing impaired or whatever subtitles.  But if they're part of the movie, like alien languages in Star Wars or Star Trek or the Sicilian in The Godfather films, they need to be in the damned movie!

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Gaffer Tape said:

TV's Frink said:

I like subs in the matte.  Easier to read.

I don't mind subs in the matte if they're the hearing impaired or whatever subtitles. 

Whatever = don't wake the kids. ;-)

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Gaffer Tape said:

TV's Frink said:

I like subs in the matte.  Easier to read.

I don't mind subs in the matte if they're the hearing impaired or whatever subtitles.  But if they're part of the movie, like alien languages in Star Wars or Star Trek or the Sicilian in The Godfather films, they need to be in the damned movie!

There are very good reasons why this isn't always the case.

For one thing it would mean a unique transfer for each language rather than just the stupid region thing.

Another is, say the subs are embedded English and the viewer is deaf and French.

They would have their French subs for the hard of hearing on but overlayed over embedded English subs which could be very messy.

Having them inside a black band might make it easier to read but it's going to be a lot of effort to align the band over the embedded subs.

It's much easier to have the subs as a digital overlay over a clean picture or do a branching of the embedded subs with a blank screen as an option.

The sub designer could make a good approximation of the original embedded sub and some distributors know that their pressing is going to only sell to a select group anyway so may bite the bullet for the added expense.

Ultimately however if you want that true to cinema experience you should be pressing your local art-house to screen the film.

Home cinema is never going to be the same thing.