Info: Re-mixed audio tracks on video releases — Page 8

Here's another I've often wondered about: what about early Warner DVD's which are obviously from a LD master and feature 384 kbp/s Dolby 5.1 audio? We've discussed that many say The Matrix is better on LD at the same bitrate but after recently doing a blind test with the first DD 5.1 theatrical release, Batman Returns, I'm not so sure they are different.

For a long time I wondered what the original 5.1 and Dolby Stereo mixes for Returns would play like. I assume they mixed for the norm of matrixed surround and got the green light for the 5.1 issue (which only played in 11 theaters in North America, so 99% heard the Dolby Stereo mix.) The LD PCM is similar to the first film, a very open soundstage and well mixed non-discrete 4 channels.

After Netflixing the old late 90's DVD, I can confirm it is the same video master and has a 5.1 track @ 384 kbp/s. It has that extra definition so wonderful of LD 5.1 compared to the matrix equivalent, and has the same tonal balance as the PCM Dolby Stereo mix. So I'm almost positive that this is the theatrical 5.1, prepared for a late LD reissue and scrapped in favor of an early DVD.

I checked with the remixed track on the SE DVD/BD which is the same in either DD, DTS or Dolby True HD. For all four of the original films, I'm pretty sure Warner went back to the master in 2005 and did a straight remix to 5.1 for all four films, with all that wonderful limiting for home TVs/soundbars built right in. This is why Batman sounds so damn tinny on anything besides LD. On Returns, none of the later mixes have the depth of the old DVD or LD. Also, all four films are now significantly louder than before, a sign of dynamic range loss.

To confirm this, I will have to get the Forever 1st issue DVD, which I can compare directly with the LD 5.1 audio.

Also, I really really wish films today could be as well mixed and presented as  Returns.  Man of Steel was so completely pathetic in 7.1.

I have the original issue of Batman Returns on DVD.  I'll have to give it another listen.

I've been pretty sure they do, as all the others in the series have, but for some reason that 4 film pack is almost impossible to find in both stores and online. I've only seen one once, before I knew it might be necessary. Before I had to shell out for the set somewhere or the old singles I figured I'd see if Netflix still shipped the old discs, which thankfully they do.

BestBuy has it online for $13 shipped. The BD 4 film version is $19.

Also, the 4 film Lethal Weapon DVD set was the last to have the "Director's Cuts" of 1-3 with footage inserted and not reissued on BD. Additionally those are full bitrate DTS and sound lovely.

Twister also had a full bitrate DTS release.  It was a great track.  Wish I had kept it, as the Blu-ray to my ears isn't nearly as good as that was, nor the AC3 LaserDisc.  That track has some oomph.

It's not you. They all do sound different.

The theatrical 5.1 ac3 is extremely detailed-especially in the dialogue and ADR. (perhaps too much.) The theatrical Dolby Stereo track (LD PCM) has great midrange and low end but lacks the clarity on the highs in the ac3.

The 5.1 remix on SE DVD/BD is somewhere between the two, but without the detail or range of either, as if it had been cleaned up and remixed to be more polite.

The Dolby Stereo tracks for Raiders and Temple on LD are knockouts. I don't see why the WS LD of Raiders should be remixed, all the effects sound the same as the 5.1, and the panning is wonderful. Additionally the PCM of Temple is so good I may prefer it to the 5.1. I can't remember if Temple and Crusade had their mixes taken from 70mm.

And as we know, the Raiders mix was "sweetened" i.e. remixed with new effects from the ground up by Ben Burtt for the BD release.

I can vouch for Temple of Doom on LaserDisc: it is unbelievably good.  Great low frequency.  The mine cart sequence is a knockout.  Very aggressive track.  

One track that did frustrate me, and perhaps I need to re-visit it, was the LPCM on Back to the Future's LaserDisc.  It didn't sound nearly as good as the 35mm Dolby A I heard on it about a year ago.  Talk about a great track!

Last Crusade is extremely detailed and well mixed for the 35mm Dolby version on LD. Sounds far more natural than the redone 5.1 DVD track, plus like the others it maintains the original dialogue panning and sound design.

Reference.

BTW, Temple on LD is now one of my all time top home audio tracks. THAT good. Seriously.

Anyone know what's up with Predator?  Looks like both the original Blu-ray and the "re-mastered for plastic" update have both a 5.1 DTS-HDMA track and a Dolby 4.0 track.

The film had 70mm blowup, so 4.0 sounds like it could be an original mix.  Anyone ever take a listen?

I do remember years ago a friend had just gotten DVD and surround sound...and I remember Predator being the disc he demoed.  I remember it being really awesome.  Of course, my I'm looking through rose colored glasses...

Batman is a Pioneer disc, same in US and Japan. It uses the old video master, which was brightened a bit for CRTs of the era from the dark theatrical prints.

PAL comparison gives an idea of the depth restored on SEDVD/BD but at the cost of color.

http://www.caps-a-holic.com/vergleich.php?vergleichID=468

The audio is the original Dolby Stereo (70mm was the same mix in 4 channel discrete w/2 baby booms), and easily the best release for audio. I listen to this track regularly, as it destroys all the 5.1 remixes.

...I really need a good way to start making audio captures...have way too many great sounding LD tracks...

I wonder if there are any differences between the CDS mix and the 35mm mix for Universal Soldier?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0105698/technical?ref_=tt_ql_dt_7