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Plot holes in the SW saga — Page 7

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Originally posted by: Samatar
"I wouldn't say alternate universe, it says "a galaxy far, far away", leading me to believe that the notion of the movies is Star Wars is out there in space, somewhere."

That was sort of my point... the fact that this story wasn't set in another dimension, but in our universe, made it confusing.


Altough every movie states, in its begining, that this story happened a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away; one must ask: far away from who? From us? And how long ago did this happen? I still belive it's set in an hipothetical alternative universe (like, it dosent matter where it happened, but it surely wasnt here).
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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I guess you could look at it that way (you should go work for GL).
-Everyone is entitled to my opinion-
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Hhhmmmm..

I always figured he had the general story outlined from the begining and tweaked and changed things as he went along. Like Luke being Leia's brother. But I think that by ESB he had allready decided that Leia and Luke were siblings because Ben says "No. There is another." to Yoda.

But of course, that could have meant anyone; even Han

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Originally posted by: Darth Chaltab
Hhhmmmm..

I always figured he had the general story outlined from the begining and tweaked and changed things as he went along. Like Luke being Leia's brother. But I think that by ESB he had allready decided that Leia and Luke were siblings because Ben says "No. There is another." to Yoda.

But of course, that could have meant anyone; even Han

When he said "No, there is another" I'm sure GL knew who it was referring to. You almost have to in order to effectively develop the surrounding story.
"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia'."
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
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Kevin A
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so then now that we all believe GL had the idea of Luke and Leia being brother and sister...
why did he still make them kiss???

maybe if it was a nice kiss that you would give your sister...
but that was a rather passionate, lustful kiss...

lol
"Never. I'll never turn to the darkside. You've failed your highness. I am a jedi, like my father before me."
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Because he realized that to appeal to the masses (read: more money), there is no better way than with a love triangle. And what better way to throw us off of ever figuring out his plans than by throwing that monkeywrench in the works?
"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia'."
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
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Kevin A
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The thing is: it doesn't really seem wrong until you know they're siblings. When you first see ESB it doesn't bother you until after RotJ.

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hey, it's just an innocent kiss. their lips barely touched.

i think the fact that he wants to kill his father is a bigger problem than that...
"Last night, Darth Vader came down from planet Vulcan and told me that if I didn't take Lorraine out that he'd melt my brain."
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Originally posted by: Darth Chaltab
The thing is: it doesn't really seem wrong until you know they're siblings. When you first see ESB it doesn't bother you until after RotJ.


Which brings me to this sick question: a lot of time has passed since they first met in ANH, so, dont you think she and Luke could have gone a little bit... intimate?

Obi-Wan talking to Luke:

"And you have a sister..."
"Leia. Leia is my sister. OH CRAP!" *throws up*
"Luke... Are you ok?"
"Oh God, no!!" *throws up some more*
"Gee, sorry, I should have..."
"Why didnt you tell me that beofre, you sick old bastard?! Do you have any idea what me and Leia did?!"
"Uh... Yes. I was watching..."
*Luke throws up some more*

I remember that back in high school, me and a friend (we both have no sisters) discussed for nearly six months on the topic: "If you had a really hot, good looking sister, would you screw her?" - and after those 6 months of discussion, we finally came up with the answer: yes, it's worth it, even being an abomination in the eyes of God and the society.
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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i dont think they wouldve been intimate.
"The ability to speak does not make you intelligent."
Qui-Gon Jinn (R.I.P.)
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Originally posted by: motti_soL
i dont think they wouldve been intimate.


Oh, so maybe I should stop writing my erotic SW fanfic.
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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Another "plot-hole-not-really": Why do Stormtroopers wear that so-called "armour"? It doesn't seem to protect them very well...
-Everyone is entitled to my opinion-
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it protects them well, except against rocks and arrows...
"The ability to speak does not make you intelligent."
Qui-Gon Jinn (R.I.P.)
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I know you're kidding, but it doesn't protect them against gunfire either. They get hit once and they're dead...
-Everyone is entitled to my opinion-
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Well, they... came with the clones? It is better than to wear nothing but speedos? I don't know...
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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Something I don't understand: Why does ObiWan tell Luke that Vader killed his father? I mean, this makes a feeling of revenge come up and Jedis shouldn't promote revenge. He could just have said that his father was killed during a battle against the Empire or sth like that.

I know Lucas probably hadn't thought of the vader=anakin stuff at that point, but it kinda bothers me. Jedis are not as noble as they want you to believe they are...
"Last night, Darth Vader came down from planet Vulcan and told me that if I didn't take Lorraine out that he'd melt my brain."
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so there was a connection between luke and obiwan, also to be able to use the "point of view" thingy... and vader did actually kill anakin, from a certain point of view
"The ability to speak does not make you intelligent."
Qui-Gon Jinn (R.I.P.)
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Feels like Obi-Wan was playing mind games on Luke. My opinion is, he wanted Luke to be on his side, so he lied to him, in order to motivate him to save Leia. And... what if... Obi-Wan dosent know Vader is Anakin, and he thinks Vader killed Anakin?

"Why didnt you tell me Vader was my father?"
"He is?! Oh... he is! Sure... Uh... You see... Time to go!" *vanishes*
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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He was protecting Luke from the truth. He knew that if he told Luke, then Luke would rush off and try to save Vader and bring him back to good when there really was no way to accomplish that.

IMHO, Obi Wan never lied to Luke. Just like he said, what he told Luke was the truth "from a certain point of view." By becoming this nearly 100% robotic evil shell of his former human self, Vader did effectively kill off Anakin. I don't see it as a lie.
"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia'."
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
-------------------------
Kevin A
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i know that. what i meant is, he could have told him something else, something less dramatic. this way he stirred a feeling of anger in Luke against darth vader and we know that anger leads to hate, hate leads to the dark side...

why not tell him that his father disappeared while he was looking for vader? would have worked too...
"Last night, Darth Vader came down from planet Vulcan and told me that if I didn't take Lorraine out that he'd melt my brain."
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If you found out your father was missing while searching for a bad guy, would you hunt down the bad guy or try to find your father? I'd opt for the latter.

If you found out the bad guy killed your dad, wouldn't you go after the bad guy and try to end his reign of death and destruction? That's what I'd do.

To bring down the Empire, Obi Wan knew he'd have to give Luke reason to want to fight them. Not exactly the way of the Jedi, true. But times were bleak like the opening crawl of ANH said.
"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia'."
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
-------------------------
Kevin A
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kapgar.com
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Originally posted by: BosskTo bring down the Empire, Obi Wan knew he'd have to give Luke reason to want to fight them. Not exactly the way of the Jedi, true. But times were bleak like the opening crawl of ANH said.

I agree with that, but the way you got it there Bossk, it sounds like Ben is manipulating Luke to his own ends.

My take on it, Lucas-making-stuff-up-as-he-goes-along and back-peddling-like-crazy-to-cover-his-ass aside, the way it's presented I think Obi-wan was being as honest as possible without telling Luke the whole traumatic truth.

Is Vader unbelievably bad? No question, even if you weren't related. Does Vader's existence have anything to do with his lack of a father? Heck yeah. Would telling you who your dad really is, right this minute when you're just a country bumpkin with no maturity or experience to handle it, help you in any way? No. It was more of warning Luke about the dark side, how it can conquer and defeat you if you let it. In ANH Ben tells Luke that Vader was his own fault, and that he felt responsible for it. That's why Ben fell on his sword. And in ROTJ, Ben pretty much said that Vader was beyond hope and redemption. Remember, both Ben and Yoda didn't think that Luke would even know the truth anyway. It was unexpected and unfortunate in ROTJ.

So Ben and Yoda was trying to protect Luke from something that would have hurt him, being on opposing sides with his own father, Luke as a good guy and his dad being bad. If they fought knowing, they believed this would have hampered Luke.

And they were right.

Although Luke's compassion ultimately did win over his father, it was a gamble. If it hadn't play out, the Emperor would have killed Luke with Vader watching from the sidelines, and Yoda and Ben would have lost their 'only hope.' (Well not really. Han still would have lowered the shields, and Lando and Wedge would still have blown up the Death Star.

Emperor:
"Now young Skywalker... you will die! Okay, job done. Moving on... Oh no, what's going on? Death Star 2 is blowing up?! But I just killed Luke instead of doing my job to eradicate the rebels, how could this have happened?! I didn't forsee this!!! Aaaarrrgghhh!"

So really it was everybody else who saved the galaxy, rendering the whole 'self-centered family' greek tragedy Luke-Vader-Emperor love triangle moot. Talk about plot holes.)


The original Star Wars trilogy: Our cultural history deserves to be preserved and should be available to the public like all great works of art!
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How about featuring, on the Ultimate Trilogy, a close-up of Ben Kenobi while he is talking to Luke, and thinking in a voice over (dubbed by Ewan): "Sorry Luke, I must lie to you in order to protect you."

Of course, then the camera goes to Luke, and we hear his thoughts: "Lollipop, lollipop, lolli-lolli-loliipop... Man I'm hungry..."
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering