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Laserdisc/Dual-Layer DVDr (And "hello" from my first post!)

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Alright, I've been lurking in the shadows around here for quite some time, all the while doing plenty of research in the background and planning to strike when the time presented itself. Recent finds on both Ebay and various wholesale computer hardware websites have made this time... um... presentable.

Anyway, what I'm planning is this: doing a no-frills Dual-Layer DVDr presentation of the Definitive Collection. No audio commentaries, no (mostly useless) subtitles, no nothin'. Just the movies as they stand, in the hopes that I can squeeze as much quality into the compressed files as the 8.7 (or something like that) Gigs per disc will allow. I've seen threads on this site which addressed this idea before, but they never seemed to go anywhere other than to turn into another discussion of what extras to include and if they should be spliced versions of the (soon to be released) official DVD sources. However, I'm not asking for ideas on content, just on the technical side of things.

Mostly I want to know if one of those $200-$250 capture cards will do the trick. I want this to SHINE with quality. So, can this be done? I figure it'll go like this: capture the movies from the Definitive Collection LD source, through component video inputs (RGB cables... you know the ones) at the best available resolution and FPS (720x480 at 30 frames per second), compress them down to 8.7 (or so) Gigs each, and burn them to DVD-9. Any extras I can throw onto a 4th disc, as with the "Dr. Gonzo" versions, but the movies themselves will have as little extra BS as I can manage for the sake of quality. (Hell, if this all works out, the extras might go on 2 discs... one with some nifty DVD-ROM content even.) I'll even use a digital audio input to keep it sounding as nice as I can. (In the end, I plan on making these available as torrents as well... gotta support my brothers, right?)

So, you think this is a feasable solution? Or should it be done with professional-grade hardware? And more importantly... has this already been done, but I just missed it somewhere? I saw the review of DVD-9s that have already been done, and needless to say, I'm aiming for something a little less... shall we say, stupid?

Any help would be greatly appreiciated. And thanks to you all for providing me with the links to the torrents that have been made available so far. (Not to mention thanks to those who did the capturing in the first place.)

On a side note, what with this being my first post and all... I'd just like to say 'ello to everybody and send out my warmest greetings to a community of folks who hold many of the same ideals I myself hold close to my heart. Hopefully a day will come when the original edits are officially released on DVD and all this talk of expensive and time consuming methods for preserving our favorite films will be for naught.
For as much as some people claim to hate what Star Wars has become, they sure seem incapable of shutting up about it.
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Attack of the clones, baby... attack of the clones. ('Least until I make a custom avatar, that is.)

I've been reading another thread regarding some new Dual-Layer formatted captures... but the conversational tangents make it a little hard to follow. Anyone know if this is gonna happen and I can save myself a few hundred bucks?
For as much as some people claim to hate what Star Wars has become, they sure seem incapable of shutting up about it.
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"Mostly I want to know if one of those $200-$250 capture cards will do the trick."

I've gotten fantastic results with a $40 WinTVGO model 190 capture board. It's gotten great reviews all over the net. That being said, it works best with third-party software.

"capture the movies from the Definitive Collection LD source, through component video inputs (RGB cables... you know the ones)"

Unless your LD player has component video (and few do), it's not going to happen. LD is composite video anyways, so it won't make that much difference, unless you have high-end pro hardware like laserman.

"Anyone know if this is gonna happen and I can save myself a few hundred bucks?"

Oh, it's coming all right, and if you think a good capture is only going to cost "a few hundred", then you'd best wait until the DL's are here.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Sweet. But I guess what I really wanna know is, are they going to take as much advantage of the dual-layer as possible? Or is it going to be packed full of extras, thus decreasing the amount of space allowed for picture quality?

And thanks for the reply, it's good to know that this idea is more than just talk for some people.
For as much as some people claim to hate what Star Wars has become, they sure seem incapable of shutting up about it.
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There are people on this board that are working on this presently. It can't be left in GL hand's after all. I don't think the movies have to be the only thing on the DL DVD by the way, its the reason for DL-DVD after all that you can put DTS and DD soundtracks on there, and commentaries.
16 years I wait and this is what I get???
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lets not forget that LD is LD and its never gonna get any better than that...
so the only hope we have now is copying the DVDs in September and editting the new scenes with the old ones...

although it will look inconsistant its as best as we can do....

i like the look of mine though... they look vintage....
"Never. I'll never turn to the darkside. You've failed your highness. I am a jedi, like my father before me."
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But I've seen the actual Laserdiscs of the trilogy... pre-SE and all. And they were UH-MAIZ-EEN. The DVDs I've downloaded, while quite nice, are just not as pretty. The entire point of me wanting to do the double-layer thing was to have as high a quality and as low a compression ratio as possible, thus giving the best picture possible. I don't really care about commentaries, I can listen to the ones on the Dr. Gonzo versions if I want commentaries. (Plus, I'd listen to the commentaries like, what... once? Maybe? The picture quality is FAR more important.)

So yes, LD ain't gonna get better than LD... but it can get a whole lot worse. And the idea of splicing with the official DVD releases just sounds... sketchy, at best.

Regardless... any ETA on the upcoming Double-Layer Editions? (There we go... a way to differentiate these upcoming editions from the rest: The DLE Set.)
For as much as some people claim to hate what Star Wars has become, they sure seem incapable of shutting up about it.
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I'm all for it. although, if I'm correct, the TR-47 set is pretty close to perfect, and that's on single layer discs.

so,

consumer electronics have advanced by leaps and bounds so the quality will probably be pretty good, although pro-lvl equipment would be preferable if at all possible.

I think you should still consider the splicing the remastered prints from the new dvds with the correct scenes from the def. ed laserdiscs. You've still got a lot of time because as of now, dual layer dvd-r's are 15 bucks each (!).
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Originally posted by: adlai

*snip*

I think you should still consider the splicing the remastered prints from the new dvds with the correct scenes from the def. ed laserdiscs. You've still got a lot of time because as of now, dual layer dvd-r's are 15 bucks each (!).


Yeah, the disks are a little pricey right now... but with a decent computer media player (i.e. WinDVD) you can just download a torrent and play the thing off of your harddrive. Besides... I'll gladly drop the $10 (yup, still high, but not as bad as $15) per disc to have a DVD at near the quality I saw on those Laserdiscs.

As for the splicing, I think that as long as the transitions aren't so jarring that they take your attention from the movies (ever seen the "Official Bootleg Edition" of Army of Darkness?) then it could work. I just don't see the transitions being that smooth.

Regarding the TR47 editions... agreed. Sweet sweet mana from heaven, those. Just looked over my newly downloaded copy of A New Hope and I must say, damn nice transfer. 31.2% into Empire as I write this, and Jedi will be following in the wee hours of tomorrow morning.
For as much as some people claim to hate what Star Wars has become, they sure seem incapable of shutting up about it.
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well, I for one would not want to watch star wars on my pc. I'd want to watch it in it's full glory on my big screen

so yes, you've still got alot of time if you want to make the perfect copy.

also, you might want to look into the laserdisc player that you have. that would probably be where the greatest differences in quality can be seen
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Another problem with Dual Layer is that it isn't compatable with that many DVD players yet.
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In terms of quality, remember also that the LD sources for the original versions of the films, are themselves transfers from unrestored footage. While superior to VHS (obviously), they seem a bit muddy, and certainly show more damage than either the restored '97 footage, or the FURTHER restored and repaired upcomming DVDs. And since any transfer from LD to DVD (9 or otherwise) will have to be compressed somewhat, I wonder how much of a difference the extra filesize really will make. Is it going to be noticeable?
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"lets not forget that LD is LD and its never gonna get any better than that...
so the only hope we have now is copying the DVDs in September and editting the new scenes with the old ones..."

And you'll quickly find out how pointless it is to "seamlessly" combine admittedly inferior LD footage with the DVD footage (which will most likely have to be recompressed)

Not to mention the fact that you will be combining anamorphic and non-anamorphic video...

"I think that as long as the transitions aren't so jarring"

Unfortunateely, most of the transitions are wipes or dissolves. Good luck syncing those up.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Originally posted by: MeBeJedi
*snip*

Unfortunateely, most of the transitions are wipes or dissolves. Good luck syncing those up.


Exactly my point regarding the idea of splicing.

I still say 50% less compression (or however the math works out) would have to be noticable. I was watching a DivX compressed copy of Underworld the other day... crystal clear even though they had taken the original 9 or so Gigs of video and crammed it into 1.4 Gigs. I know the codecs are completely different, but recompressing already compressed video and keeping that level of quality gives me hope that something can be done.

Regardless, I'm looking forward to seeing the results of the current double-layer project, and good luck to everyone involved!
For as much as some people claim to hate what Star Wars has become, they sure seem incapable of shutting up about it.
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and oh yea! don't forget anamorphic!
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wouldnt the anamorphic DVDs do?
"Never. I'll never turn to the darkside. You've failed your highness. I am a jedi, like my father before me."
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Hi there!

Been following this thread with interest.

From what I've been reading on the net recently about the DVD documentary (Empire of Dreams) most, if not all (? - haven't seen it yet) of the original versions of scenes are in that, and they're cleaned up and in anamorphic :-)

Surely these cut be edited into the new cleaned up DVD's without too much trouble?

Just a thought!!

Cheers,

- john.
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Not really, no.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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yes, they can. it can be done when the camera angle changes. for instance, I just watched the TR-47 ANH, and some parts are really bad looking, like the jawa sections. The transitions would be near impossible to do, which is why that part shouldn't be bothered with. however, within the scenes, there are camera angle changes, and that's where it could be done.