imperialscum said:
Well if you guys think that lax immigration regulation and no (or inadequate) integration policies is a good thing, I am okay with that and I respect your opinion. But attacking me because I support a more strict immigration regulation and proper integration policies is stupid and disrespectful. Just because I prefer Japan model to UK/Sweden model doesn't make me intolerant. It is you who are intolerant.
LOL. You're a trip.
Anyway, no, America and the U.K. don't seek out immigrants, but they provide a process for those interested to become part of a selection process, then they select from that pool. So yeah, in a manner of speaking, we do "swoop in and take them". Obviously TheBoost is being figurative, the word "swoop" ought to have tipped you off there. Clearly he didn't mean literally going to their country, flying around like a bird of prey, then swooping down and snatching the ones we want up like a hawk would snatch up a chipmunk. (This is addressed to Imperial and Hey, not just the above quoted text.
I am all about immigration reform in America. The way we do it now is really stupid. We get a lot of worthless people here because one person can win the lottery, immigrate via marriage, become part of the selection process, or come over on a student visa and continue further education long enough to qualify for a green card. From there they can proceed to bring over their entire extended family throughout the course of many years. One useful now well educated immigrant that would be an asset to society could potentially lead to the extra baggage of two elderly parents, a less ambitious sibling along with her two kids and a lazy bum of a husband who contributes nothing. All of them will become citizens given they stay long enough. We might get a new doctor or a culturally diverse college professor out of the deal, but hypothetically this could also lead to two more elderly people drawing social security and another family collecting food stamps and welfare.
Also, I am very aware of the problem of fundamental Islam rapidly seeping into European countries. It is an issue I watch pretty closely, and if you look several pages back in the politics thread, you'll notice I occasionally bring up the issue and post some news stories relating to the subject. In other words, it is something I am concerned enough about to keep up to date on and also to try to make others aware of.
I think a no immigration stance is legit enough as well. I love cultures. My career, when I'm working in it, is heavily related to culture. I have a good deal of cross-cultural experience. A fellow expatriate buddy of mine and I used to talk about America being a salad, when you come to America, you are expected and allowed to be whatever you are. It is like the salad bowl in the middle of the dinner table. Everyone dishes a little bit of it out onto their own plates. They have a plate full of their own main course and sides, and they also have a serving of the salad. As an American, when I travel to or live in other countries, I am expected to blend. If I don't know the language, eyes roll. When I do something culturally unkosher or somehow demonstrate my inevitable ignorance of local norms and mores in some way, big or small, people sigh, "silly American" and shake their heads.
"When in Rome, do as the Romans do; when in The United States, do as you would at home." My buddy and I would lament that while everyone else at the table has their own plates of food, we simply have an empty plate in front of us filled with the same salad in the middle of the table that everyone else is dishing up freely. We were stuck in a culturally devoid expanse, looking at all this rich culture at the table around us, but only able to smell its delicious odors and watch others enjoy it as we slowly munched on our bland salad. This is why we were both expatriates, why we both sought out and seized opportunities to immerse ourselves in these foreign worlds. Even if those other dishes could never be ours, we wanted to surround ourselves with people we could live vicariously through; so we could watch longingly with rumbling stomachs as they partook of their exotic cuisines.
I hated seeing Wal-Mart in Germany and McDonald's in France. I wanted to see these cultures untouched. When in Germany, I wanted to see Germany, not Germany with some America sprinkled on top. When in France I wanted to see France. When in England I wanted to see England and English people, not another melting pot like the States. Unfortunately to a degree (but not all bad), we live in a global world climate and the world is shrinking fast. I'd loved to see European countries hold back the night and maintain their own identities. So don't misunderstand me, we have far more in common on this topic than you think.
About five years ago while living State side for what I planned on only being a very short period of time, the same old friend of mine that I developed the salad analogy with so many years before happened to cross paths with me again and we became room mates for a time. Each evening and weekend we'd find some trouble to get into or drink ourselves silly and talk linguistics, politics, women, travel, culture, and about how badly we needed to get back outside of our own borders. I began noticing how aloof and out of touch my friend was, and then realized I was pretty much looking in a mirror. We could bring home women, but could never maintain relationships; we could make fun and interesting acquaintances and have a good time with them, but could never establish real friendships. In my own country of origin I felt like Data from TNG, looking at the things around me with puzzlement and bemused. I finally got a long awaited job offer overseas, and proceeded to unceremoniously decline it. If I was eating the same salad as everyone around me, why did I feel so out of touch and disconnected from them? I decided it was time to stop looking at the United States like an outsider, and see what I could do about seeing it from the inside.
Since then I have lived in four different states, and moved into a new living situation every several months. I have had tons of room mates since then of various social and economic statuses, ethnicities, and ideologies. Every few months I hit up Craig's List for a new interesting short term living situation. That is why I live in the part of town I do at the moment, and why I work a job way below my pedigree. I've even been homeless and jobless for periods of time. The month of January of this year was spent living in my car, and sometimes going days without food or a shower, I had several good reasons for doing this, but ultimately I did it just to see what it would be like.
Turns out, I do have a warm meal on my plate hidden underneath that salad. Surprisingly America has a lot more culture than I ever gave it credit for, and while a lot of that culture is still distasteful to me, some of it is pretty nifty. More amazing still, I don't even know a fraction of it. All the places I've lived have been extremely different in their own ways. It is really kind of crazy, actually.
Back to the no immigration stance. It is perfectly legit you hold that view. Wanting your country and culture preserved is valid. I still stand by all the other stuff I have said before, and I find some of the ways you expressed it to be a bit distasteful. The reality is you do have these human beings coming into your country, addressing the situation with the attitude you have isn't going to change anything, it makes you sound small, and historically that kind of attitude has brought with it all sorts of trouble, grief, and perpetuated ill feelings. But you make an excellent point: Who am I to judge you? Nobody. The things I have said are just my opinions, and they very well could be totally out of line or just plain wrong. For the last few years I feel like I've learned so much with each passing year; and all this has done for me is shown me, in no small way, that I know so very little.
