Are Muslims really trying to take over, or are some people just suffering from Islamaphobia? — Page 9

Hey, it's me. said:

So you thought the picture at the time was a staged fake anyway? Begs the question, why release a 'staged' fake picture of the most important people in America in a clearly fake Situation room? 

according to wiki's description of the photo:

"

U.S. President Barack Obama and Vice President Joe Biden, along with members of the national security team, receive an update on Operation Neptune's Spear, a mission against Osama bin Laden, in one of the conference rooms of the Situation Room of the White House, May 1, 2011"

so it wasn't the situation room itself, it was a conference room of the situation room.  

Warbler said:

Hey, it's me. said:

Warbler said:

Hey, it's me. said:

Bin Laden could've disappeared for the rest of his days if he wished. He would never have been found. And where does he eventually end up being discovered ten years later? In a mansion in Pakistan watching TV. Nope I just don't buy it. Why not Iran? Plenty of sympathisers there who would've made sure he would've permanently disappeared.

I am sure he had people in Pakistan helping him.  He probably thought we've never send troops into Pakistan and so he thought he was safe. 

That's a very nonchalant thought from the worlds most wanted man. Iran was, and still is, a no go country for America. Your telling me after 10 years he became mildly blasé about the hunt for him and thought,'nah. Ill be alright here.' . ?

 

Well remember for a portion of that time, Bush concentrated on Iraq and Bin Laden wasn't priority.    I would think Pakistan would be more no go than Iran.   There are alot of people who hate us in both countries, but only Pakistan has nukes(yet).   Sending troops into Pakistan is much more risky than sending troops into Iran.   For years in this very forum I asked why we couldn't send troops into mountain areas in Pakistan, where we thought he was, the response I got was

"no it would be too risky,  we would be risking nuclear war with Pakistan.   The people that don't like the US, would be up in arms and perhaps cause chaos and perhaps extreme US hating hardliners would take over Pakistan and then who knows what."   

maybe Bin Laden thought the same thing and therefor thought he was safe in Pakistan.   

The US has had diplomatic relations with Pakistan since the 1940's. There is no US/Iran diplomatic relationship. Where would you go?

Warbler said:

Hey, it's me. said:

So you thought the picture at the time was a staged fake anyway? Begs the question, why release a 'staged' fake picture of the most important people in America in a clearly fake Situation room? 

according to wiki's description of the photo:

"

U.S. President Barack Obama and Vice President Joe Biden, along with members of the national security team, receive an update on Operation Neptune's Spear, a mission against Osama bin Laden, in one of the conference rooms of the Situation Room of the White House, May 1, 2011"

 

so it wasn't the situation room itself, it was a conference room of the situation room.  

So something as momentous as that operation is only worthy of a conference room? Was the the actual Situation Room busy at the time with something more important? 

Dude, you don't need diplomatic relationships, invade a place.   Of course they do help if you want to prevent a war with said nation.   And, due to the unpopularity of the US in Pakistan, it is doubtful we would have gotten official permission to send troops to Pakistan. 

The fact is the US and Pakistan have relations. Iran may aswell be North Korea to America. It's a no go country, even for covert operations. Shit it don't take much working out for an internationally wanted man no 1 on the list.

Hey, it's me. said:

Warbler said:

Hey, it's me. said:

So you thought the picture at the time was a staged fake anyway? Begs the question, why release a 'staged' fake picture of the most important people in America in a clearly fake Situation room? 

according to wiki's description of the photo:

"

U.S. President Barack Obama and Vice President Joe Biden, along with members of the national security team, receive an update on Operation Neptune's Spear, a mission against Osama bin Laden, in one of the conference rooms of the Situation Room of the White House, May 1, 2011"

 

so it wasn't the situation room itself, it was a conference room of the situation room.  

So something as momentous as that operation is only worthy of a conference room? Was the the actual Situation Room busy at the time with something more important? 

oh I am sure it is worthy of the situation room.   I have no idea they weren't in the situation room itself.    It is hardly proof of a conspiracy.

Hey, it's me. said:

The fact is the US and Pakistan have relations. Iran may aswell be North Korea to America.

nope, big difference between Iran and N. Korea:  N. Korea has nukes, Iran does not yet.

Hey, it's me. said:

It's a no go country, even for covert operations.

why?

Hey, it's me. said:

Shit it don't take much working out for an internationally wanted man no 1 on the list.

He had friends helping him in Pakistan.   Musharraf and Ali Zardari could not afford to help the US all the much, for fear of losing support.   It doesn't take much working out for that, either.

here is more detail on the situation room picture:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Situation_Room_%28photograph%29

Warbler said:

Hey, it's me. said:

The fact is the US and Pakistan have relations. Iran may aswell be North Korea to America.

nope, big difference between Iran and N. Korea:  N. Korea has nukes, Iran does not yet.

Hey, it's me. said:

It's a no go country, even for covert operations.

why?

Hey, it's me. said:

Shit it don't take much working out for an internationally wanted man no 1 on the list.

He had friends helping him in Pakistan.   Musharraf and Ali Zardari could not afford to help the US all the much, for fear of losing support.   It doesn't take much working out for that, either.

For starters wether a country has 'nukes' or not has literally nothing to do with it. Nothing. If America was discovered to be running covert ops deep in Iran, do you really think there wouldn't be massive repercussions? The powers in Iran would just simply say,'how dare you without our permission! and then carry on as normal like after berating a misbehaving child. Where were the repercussions of the Bin Laden raid from Pakistan? There were none because of the diplomatic relations, no matter who the hell supported him within the country. America has no relations, no support, no nothing in Iran. You are BITTER enemies. Bin Laden was a fool for hiding in Pakistan.

According to the late president of that country Bin Laden was dead in 2001.

She herself was assassinated in 2007.

imperialscum said:

Warbler said:

imperialscum said:

 Or millions of people around the world suffering because of your foreign policy and military invasions.

yeah, sure it is all the fault of the big bad US, and Saddam and Bin Laden and Al-Qaeda have nothing to do with it.   what bullshit.

What does Saddam has to do with South East Asia in 60' and 70', for example?

I didn't know you were talking about South East Asia in 60's and and 70's. 

imperialscum said:

Oh and talking about Saddam... can you remind me why exactly did you invade Iraq?

He was an evil dictator that murdered many of his own people, certainly kept them oppressed, and we though he had wmds.   For all we know he did have wmds and disposed of them or sent them somewhere else before we could stop him.    I am not sure we should have gone into Iraq, what I do know is that Saddam was a bad guy and would have developed wmds and used them against the US, if he could have. 

Hey, it's me. said:

Warbler said:

Hey, it's me. said:

Bin Laden could've disappeared for the rest of his days if he wished. He would never have been found. And where does he eventually end up being discovered ten years later? In a mansion in Pakistan watching TV. Nope I just don't buy it. Why not Iran? Plenty of sympathisers there who would've made sure he would've permanently disappeared.

I am sure he had people in Pakistan helping him.  He probably thought we've never send troops into Pakistan and so he thought he was safe. 

That's a very nonchalant thought from the worlds most wanted man. Iran was, and still is, a no go country for America. Your telling me after 10 years he became mildly blasé about the hunt for him and thought,'nah. Ill be alright here.' . ?

I've lost a lot of interest in this thread, but I will jump in and comment here.  Not all Muslims are the same.  Bin Laden was a very strict Sunni who once said that Afghanistan (prior to the fall of the Taliban, and also Sunni) was the only truly Islamic nation on earth.  Iran is a Shi'ite nation, and in fact thinks itself the keeper of the faith, as no other Shi'ite nation or ethnicity is as powerful or populous.  Pakistan was much more in line with his bin Laden's ideology, while Iran was not fond of him.  They were very different brands of Muslim (remember, most of the violence in Iraq was between Sunnis and Shi'ites), and bin Laden chose the one that he could see eye to eye with.

Hey, it's me. said:

The fact is the US and Pakistan have relations. Iran may aswell be North Korea to America. It's a no go country, even for covert operations. Shit it don't take much working out for an internationally wanted man no 1 on the list.

Relations with this country are almost entirely based on our monetary aid.  Most Pakistanis hate us, the government is not fond of us, but they appreciate the very hefty annual check they get from the United States.  Pakistan has not exactly acted as a true friend in numerous ways, not just in their probable hiding of bin Laden.  For years they allowed Taliban soldiers to train in their territory and cross into Afghanistan in order to attack American troops, and when they finally took action, it never seemed to be particularly thorough.  Pakistan was a great place for him to hide.

Hey, it's me. said:

Warbler said:

Hey, it's me. said:

The fact is the US and Pakistan have relations. Iran may aswell be North Korea to America.

nope, big difference between Iran and N. Korea:  N. Korea has nukes, Iran does not yet.

Hey, it's me. said:

It's a no go country, even for covert operations.

why?

Hey, it's me. said:

Shit it don't take much working out for an internationally wanted man no 1 on the list.

He had friends helping him in Pakistan.   Musharraf and Ali Zardari could not afford to help the US all the much, for fear of losing support.   It doesn't take much working out for that, either.

For starters wether a country has 'nukes' or not has literally nothing to do with it.  Nothing.

um, yes it does, if you do not want to start a nuclear war.

Hey, it's me. said:

If America was discovered to be running covert ops deep in Iran, do you really think there wouldn't be massive repercussions?

no, but there wouldn't be a nuclear war, since Iran did not have them.

Hey, it's me. said:

Where were the repercussions of the Bin Laden raid from Pakistan? There were none because of the diplomatic relations, no matter who the hell supported him within the country. America has no relations, no support, no nothing in Iran. You are BITTER enemies. Bin Laden was a fool for hiding in Pakistan.

Bin Laden knew we though he was in the mountains.  He didn't think we'd have any idea he was where he was.  He was wrong.

darth_ender said:

Hey, it's me. said:

Warbler said:

Hey, it's me. said:

Bin Laden could've disappeared for the rest of his days if he wished. He would never have been found. And where does he eventually end up being discovered ten years later? In a mansion in Pakistan watching TV. Nope I just don't buy it. Why not Iran? Plenty of sympathisers there who would've made sure he would've permanently disappeared.

I am sure he had people in Pakistan helping him.  He probably thought we've never send troops into Pakistan and so he thought he was safe. 

That's a very nonchalant thought from the worlds most wanted man. Iran was, and still is, a no go country for America. Your telling me after 10 years he became mildly blasé about the hunt for him and thought,'nah. Ill be alright here.' . ?

I've lost a lot of interest in this thread, but I will jump in and comment here.  Not all Muslims are the same.  Bin Laden was a very strict Sunni who once said that Afghanistan (prior to the fall of the Taliban, and also Sunni) was the only truly Islamic nation on earth.  Iran is a Shi'ite nation, and in fact thinks itself the keeper of the faith, as no other Shi'ite nation or ethnicity is as powerful or populous.  Pakistan was much more in line with his bin Laden's ideology, while Iran was not fond of him.  They were very different brands of Muslim (remember, most of the violence in Iraq was between Sunnis and Shi'ites), and bin Laden chose the one that he could see eye to eye with.

When it comes to being a Muslim enemy of America there are no divisions. Did the Shi'ites openly condemn 9/11 and distance themselves from Bin Laden? The whole thing was a Sunni deal and it doesn't concern us? They could've harboured him to ths very day and America would still be scratching its head asking,'where the fuck is he?'

You do realise how nuclear war works?

You don't launch nukes at people with nukes or near people with nukes because that's a sure fire way of getting nukes launched at you.

So if you use them at all you only launch nukes at people without nukes and not near people with nukes.

In short the only way a nuclear war can happen now is by accident.

My advice is to tell everyone you have nukes but spend the money on a renewable energy based national public transport system.

Hey, it's me. said:

darth_ender said:

Hey, it's me. said:

Warbler said:

Hey, it's me. said:

Bin Laden could've disappeared for the rest of his days if he wished. He would never have been found. And where does he eventually end up being discovered ten years later? In a mansion in Pakistan watching TV. Nope I just don't buy it. Why not Iran? Plenty of sympathisers there who would've made sure he would've permanently disappeared.

I am sure he had people in Pakistan helping him.  He probably thought we've never send troops into Pakistan and so he thought he was safe. 

That's a very nonchalant thought from the worlds most wanted man. Iran was, and still is, a no go country for America. Your telling me after 10 years he became mildly blasé about the hunt for him and thought,'nah. Ill be alright here.' . ?

I've lost a lot of interest in this thread, but I will jump in and comment here.  Not all Muslims are the same.  Bin Laden was a very strict Sunni who once said that Afghanistan (prior to the fall of the Taliban, and also Sunni) was the only truly Islamic nation on earth.  Iran is a Shi'ite nation, and in fact thinks itself the keeper of the faith, as no other Shi'ite nation or ethnicity is as powerful or populous.  Pakistan was much more in line with his bin Laden's ideology, while Iran was not fond of him.  They were very different brands of Muslim (remember, most of the violence in Iraq was between Sunnis and Shi'ites), and bin Laden chose the one that he could see eye to eye with.

When it comes to being a Muslim enemy of America there are no divisions. Did the Shi'ites openly condemn 9/11 and distance themselves from Bin Laden? The whole thing was a Sunni deal and it doesn't concern us? They could've harboured him to ths very day and America would still be scratching its head asking,'where the fuck is he?'

'The enemy of my enemy is my friend' is not a universal axiom.  I assure you, bin Laden would not have been safe, nor would he have been content to be in Iran.  When his mission is Islamic purity, why would he go to the nation that represents the greatest heresies in his mind?  His mission was quite religious, not just political, and Iran was little better than the US.  I'm not just talking out my backside here.  You're just speculating.

Sunni Muslims still have a portion of the population in Iran. And we're Bin Laden to be hidden deep within? You would never have found him. His MAIN grievance was with the U.S and had the majority Shi'ite discovered he was hiding within Iran do you really think they would've been more than willing to disclose that information? Your living in cloud cuckoo land if you do.

you are simply not listening to Darth Ender.

http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/articles/brmiddleeastnafricara/313.php

Most Iranians were not fond of him.

According the following link, it looks like he maintained a limited working relationship...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beliefs_and_ideology_of_Osama_bin_Laden#Jews.2C_Christians.2C_and_Shia_Muslims

...but he certainly considered them heretical, and I doubt he would have been content to live among them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osama_bin_Laden#Beliefs_and_ideology

And in spite of the official stance of the Iranian government, many Iranians are pro-US.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93United_States_relations#Divide_between_public_opinion_and_state_policy

darth_ender said:

http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/articles/brmiddleeastnafricara/313.php

Most Iranians were not fond of him.

According the following link, it looks like he maintained a limited working relationship...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beliefs_and_ideology_of_Osama_bin_Laden#Jews.2C_Christians.2C_and_Shia_Muslims

...but he certainly considered them heretical, and I doubt he would have been content to live among them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osama_bin_Laden#Beliefs_and_ideology

And in spite of the official stance of the Iranian government, many Iranians are pro-US.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93United_States_relations#Divide_between_public_opinion_and_state_policy

Yes I am listening to Darth Ender but the issue your avoiding is no matter the conflict between the two divisions of the Muslim faith, America and the West is the common enemy. IF many Iranians are pro-US as you put it (hard to believe considering Israel) Bin Laden being amongst them would've been refuted by ALL due to him being a MUSLIM despite all else. You seem to underestimate the sheer hatred these people have of the West.

Hey, it's me. said:

So something as momentous as that operation is only worthy of a conference room? Was the the actual Situation Room busy at the time with something more important? 

I agree with a lot of what you and Bingo have been saying. First, Bin Laden was a has been, and I feel like at that point he served his cause better as a martyr than as a living breathing bag of bones. Second, the whole thing is a bit sketchy. As a naturally very skeptical sort of person, I need more than Obama getting in front of the TV cameras and essentially saying, "Who's a badass? THIS GUY!"

So where is he? Oh, we killed him! Where's the body? Oh, yeah, um, we gave him a proper burial at sea, in accordance with his religious beliefs. So, do we have photographs of him being detained by US forces? No, we killed him straight away, he resisted. So, do we have photographs of the body? Eww! No! That's disgusting and inappropriate, you sick bastard! Okay then, that settles it, clearly we got him! USA, USA, USA!!!

However, I can't for the living life of me figure out what point you are trying to make with this situation room thing. I'm not even sure if you know what point you are trying to make with it. The situation room Obama and Biden are in looks like an HR office, rather than some crazy badass room I'd expect to see in movies, therefore I smell something fishy... Oh, well it is one of the situation room's conference rooms. Ah ha! If they really got Bin Laden, surely they would have used the real situation room rather than one of its conference rooms!

As if Obama and Biden wouldn't be allowed to use the real situation room for a staged fake. Sorry guys, we've got real government stuff going on in here at the moment, if you want to fake this thing to help you win the next election you guys can setup in-- here, let me check my clipboard and see what's open-- Ah, yeah, you can setup in conference room seven over there."

Warbler said:

Mrebo said:

 I think Bush was right that bin Laden wasn't the that important a target

tell that to the friends and family members of the 3000 people he murdered(not to mention the friends and family member of people that died in other attacks like on the USS Cole).

Well, I am sure the friends and family members of the 3000 that died have heard it, and if they haven't they can read it here and in many other places.

While we are at it, let's tell the more than 3000 dead civilians and non-military casualties of these two wars that while their loss was regrettable, it was a necessary sacrifice in order to bring justice to Bin Laden. Unfortunately, we have no way to get this information to them, being as they are dead and all. Hopefully they understand and were cool with it.

CP3S said:

Hey, it's me. said:

So something as momentous as that operation is only worthy of a conference room? Was the the actual Situation Room busy at the time with something more important? 

I agree with a lot of what you and Bingo have been saying. First, Bin Laden was a has been, and I feel like at that point he served his cause better as a martyr than as a living breathing bag of bones.

whatever.  he murdered 3000 people.   he deserved to die.

CP3S said:

Second, the whole thing is a bit sketchy. As a naturally very skeptical sort of person, I need more than Obama getting in front of the TV cameras and essentially saying, "Who's a badass? THIS GUY!"

So where is he? Oh, we killed him! Where's the body? Oh, yeah, um, we gave him a proper burial at sea, in accordance with his religious beliefs. So, do we have photographs of him being detained by US forces? No, we killed him straight away, he resisted. So, do we have photographs of the body? Eww! No! That's disgusting and inappropriate, you sick bastard! Okay then, that settles it, clearly we got him! USA, USA, USA!!!

if he is not really dead, how he hasn't announced that he is still alive?    Surely he would have loved to make fools of us by shooting "ha! ha! I am still alive! you didn't get me!"  yet there have been no videos of him after it was announced that he was dead.  

also they did DNA tests on him and confirmed it was him.

CP3S, I have never heard you question the story of his death, why are you doing so now?