Are Muslims really trying to take over, or are some people just suffering from Islamaphobia? — Page 4

It's as much an Empire as the Soviet Union was.

Hey, it's me. said: something that is basically powered by propellers? And what powers these magical propellers? 

No it's lift comes from hot air,

The heat and the power to the props comes from electricity and electricity doesn't have to come from fossil fuels.

It can also replenish it's electricity with solar cells.

Warbler said:

darth_ender said:

Warb, don't respond to Bingowings if you keep him on ignore.  Replying to others quoting him is no different than unblocking a comment. 

I disagree.    I don't see how reading other people's quotes of him is the same as unblocking a comment.    If I had a way to block the parts of people's posts where they are quoting him, I would.

Don't read it.  It has the same effect.  And if you do read it, don't respond, even if it's infuriating to you, because you are then still carrying on a conversation with him, which you are attempting to avoid by blocking him.

darth_ender said:

As much as you might not like what he says, if you are genuinely trying to ignore him, don't read the quotes, much less reply to them.

it is very difficult to not reply when someone calls America, an empire.  

I agree.  I know why some call it that, but I think its a simplistic and unfair judgment.  Sometimes (and I know I am a pot calling the kettle black for saying this) it is better to just ignore the offending comment instead of responding to it.  You're not going to change anyone's mind, especially over the Internet.

Bingowings said:

It's as much an Empire as the Soviet Union was.

This is pretty ignorant.  As much as nations voluntarily provide us with overseas military bases (in a mutually advantageous relationship, as we are paying rent), or perhaps adopt our culture (not forcibly, but simply the nature of being an influential culture), or even looking at our historical conquests (every nation on earth owns territory once owned by another people but obtained during some historical conquest), I don't think it's fair to label the US as an empire.  The Soviet Union forcibly held several republics as part of what was truly the Russian Empire, particularly the Caucuses or Baltic republics, and even the central Asian republics.  The most willing collaborators were Belarus and Ukraine.  But beyond the USSR's own borders, it forcibly maintained communist governments in Hungary and the rest of Eastern Europe.  This went beyond what some might compare in the US's actions.  Several proxy wars took place in countries like Afghanistan, African or East Asian nations, or South America.  These were wars where the US and USSR were promoting their ideal political/economic systems but were not directly involved.  But when one of the Soviet Union's satellite states attempt to liberalize on its own accord, the Soviets moved in and crushed the governments' efforts and replaced those politicians with their own brand.  The US has never acted so aggressively to promote its style of government or economic system.  How freely we have allowed nations we have liberated to hate us and insult us, such as Afghanistan and Iraq.  If we were truly an empire, those nations would be paying us oil through the nose to reimburse us for our efforts.

Bingowings said:

Hey, it's me. said: something that is basically powered by propellers? And what powers these magical propellers? 

No it's lift comes from hot air,

The heat and the power to the props comes from electricity and electricity doesn't have to come from fossil fuels.

It can also replenish it's electricity with solar cells.

I understand the concept and its workings. It's pretty simple stuff. But as a commercial, viable, alternative it isn't a notion that works. If it were? Then the skys of today would be awash with air balloons. But strangely, they aren't are they. As I've said, the advanced technology to replace the jet engine is in existence. 

darth_ender said:

Bingowings said:

It's as much an Empire as the Soviet Union was.

  But when one of the Soviet Union's satellite states attempt to liberalize on its own accord, the Soviets moved in and crushed the governments' efforts and replaced those politicians with their own brand.  The US has never acted so aggressively to promote its style of government or economic system.  

Tell that to the Vietnamese and the El Salvadorians.

That was assisting our preferred side in fighting a civil war, not crushing a government's own efforts at reform.

Hey, it's me. said:

Bingowings said:

Hey, it's me. said: something that is basically powered by propellers? And what powers these magical propellers? 

No it's lift comes from hot air,

The heat and the power to the props comes from electricity and electricity doesn't have to come from fossil fuels.

It can also replenish it's electricity with solar cells.

I understand the concept and its workings. It's pretty simple stuff. But as a commercial, viable, alternative it isn't a notion that works. If it were? Then the skys of today would be awash with air balloons. But strangely, they aren't are they. As I've said, the advanced technology to replace the jet engine is in existence. 

It's not strange.

Look at Mustard and HOTOL, these are commercially viable but the protectionists interests repress advances outside the oil dollar paradigm.

Why should the oil barons and the weapons companies relinquish their foothold?

Did the man in the white suit fall to Earth for nothing?

darth_ender said:

That was assisting our preferred side in fighting a civil war, not crushing a government's own efforts at reform.

LOL

I am genuinely smiling.  Please read the following.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_war#Background_to_1949

US supporting a friendly existing government with military intervention.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvadoran_Civil_War

Aid but not military intervention to support existing government.

darth_ender said:

Bingowings said:

It's as much an Empire as the Soviet Union was.

what a crock of shit.    How can one even start to try to reason with someone that says this, and previously claims they don't hate the U.S.   This is U.S. hate if ever I've seen it. 

darth_ender said:How freely we have allowed nations we have liberated to hate us and insult us, such as Afghanistan and Iraq.  If we were truly an empire, those nations would be paying us oil through the nose to reimburse us for our efforts.

Hell, how do you think the USSR would have reacted to a 911 attack?  What do you think they would have done to that nation harboring the people that did it?  They probably would have nuked them.

Hey, it's me. said:

CP3S said:

TheBoost said:

Hey, it's me. said:

TheBoost said:

Hey, it's me. said:

And this is where the conflict stems from. Western Europe has increasingly become a more secular society over the years. The majority don't need religion to tell them how to live their lives. We've moved on. They don't like the way we live? Then stay in their own fucking country. That's all it boils down to.

The "way we live" is itself a troubling statement that can pretty much be used to justify anything, and oppress anyone.

So would you prefer to live under the rules of a western democracy, or under a Sharia controlled dictatorship? And make no mistake, Sharia Law is a dictatorship. Make your choice. The UK or Saudi Arabia?

Your false dichotomy is truly ridiculous.Truly, truly ridiculous.

 

Gaaaah! There really are lessons to be learned and precautions to be taken here. Unfortunately, you have one side that is far too willing to sit back and say, "What's good for the goose is good for the gander", like Bingo. While the other side makes ridiculous claims and drags it too far in the other direction.

Guys with views like Hey It's Me's makes guys with similar opinions to me on the subject look like loonies because we all get categorized together. 

So my opinion is that of a lunatic?

No. Not really. But I think you are a bit extreme and hardlined in some of your views.

Today I stopped by a gas station, I was in line behind an Indonesian woman, and behind me was a bald guy with a beard and a gold cross around his neck. Typical redneck. The Indonesian woman was buying a pack of smokes and a bag of chips, and her fiver was a few cents to short. She told the shop keeper that she had to run to her car to grab some extra change (which is the point that I got in line behind her, had I known what was going on before hand I would have gladly covered the amount she was short), the clerk set her stuff aside and said, "Okay, I'll save this stuff for you while you get the change from your car", but she insisted that she needed to go ahead and buy the cigarettes and she'd come back for the chips in a second. Since he'd already rung up the stuff he had to process a refund, not sure why, I have no idea how that cash register shit works. Her English was broken, but she seemed to speak it well enough. As soon as she walked out the door the man behind me started cursing and said, "You know, as far as I am concerned if they aren't willing to learn our goddam language, they can just get the fuck out."

The points you are arguing are typically the points I am used to hearing come from people like that worthless asshole that was behind me in line at that gas station. Personally, I'd rather keep that elderly Indonesian woman and have guys like him get the fuck out of my country. Unfortunately, I live in a state where people from Indonesia are rare, and guys like him are everywhere. 

I don't know you, Hey, It's Me. I don't know if you are a lunatic or not. So far, I have rather enjoyed your presence here. But, with many of the views you've expressed here so far (besides the firearm issue and your view on religion in general), I'd probably take you for a southern white American conservative if I weren't aware of what country you live in. In my country, they are the ones that freak out about signs being in foreign languages and fearmonger about anything and everything that aren't part of the culture they were raised with (like dudes in dresses, people that don't speak English well, and people who practice religions that don't circle around Jesus).

That being said, I thrive off of hearing views that greatly differ from my own, and I see them as opportunities for personal growth and education. Sometimes it is the closest I can get to being inside someone elses head. As I have told Warbler, sometimes these other points of view have gone along ways in making me rethink and reshaping my perspective.

(And yes, Warbler, I don't think I got around to responding to your post on that topic, but yes, you absolutely have caused me to rethink many things over the years of having these discussions with you; sometime this rethinking has caused me to change my perspective, and other times it has contributed to further cementing the views I already held. I know we disagree a lot, and sometimes I can be kind of a dick in the way I present my opinions, but I value your views and I feel they have contributed greatly to opening up my mind on many issues).

Bingowings said:

At the moment petrol cars are only needed for rural communities cut off from public transport. If you gave back the amount of money people spend on their cars and oil based power generation there wouldn't be a financial crisis.

Obviously you have never been to my country. Here, public transport is a rare luxury reserved for large over packed cities, or something that provides smelly poor people a very limited means of getting from their ghettos to only the more popular parts of their smaller towns/cities and back again.

The majority of the U.S. is cut off from public transportation. There is no option for public transport from where I live to where I work, and if I were to bike it, it would take me several hours to get to work everyday.

If I had it my way, I'd live in a place where I could get everywhere I need to go via public transport and bicycle. As it is, I'd probably rather die than lose my car. It is almost literally my livelihood and my sanity. Without it I couldn't earn money to live, and I'd feel crippled, boxed in and trapped to the point I'd lose my mind and/or become suicidal. 

I agree that fossil fuels need to go. Better option are being developed, and eventually will be affordable and viable enough for us to chuck their usage. I am all about seeing their usage become a thing of the past. However, the current world financial crises is much more complex, our dependency on fossil fuels only account for a very small portion of that issue. You seem to act as if it is the crux of the problem.

I have been to America and used the bus, the trains, taxi cabs and the subway in and around New York state (it was 1992 so maybe things have got worse).

I'd imagine that would be more difficult way out in isolated communities but there is always room for improvement.

Maybe some could resurrect Detroit's transport Empire by using it as a hub for re-building and improving the public transport system of the nation.

I don't think such a 'socialist' idea would go down well though.

And Ender I don't know why you are so shy about being part of the American Empire. 

Some of the greatest civilisations in the history of mankind have been so.

Like Rome pretending to be a Republic when Caesar was an absolute monarch, USA has to use a bit of semantic stealth to keep it's colonies in line.

It's deluding yourself into thinking you are above the rest of the world and the rest of history that leads poor countries with their own delusions to hate the USA so much.

Well C3PS I can guarantee you I'm definitely not a lunatic. I may be a lot of things, but a lunatic isn't one of them. I live in an area of South London which has become increasingly diverse over the years. Most varying types of people just naturally integrate (being able to speak English IS essential). But there are those who have no intention of integrating. Who through their own choice, shut themselves off from the wider community. And this creates ill feeling. And the overwhelming majority who do this are immigrant Muslims. We live next door to a Muslim family. Now they're not in your face Muslims. Sure most of the time they keep themselves to themselves, but on occasion I have spoken to the young wife and she's very pleasant and seems very bright. What does get on my tits though is when large communities of Muslims such as those in East London feel its their right to live by their own laws, make locals feel uncomfortable, harbour extremists and hate preachers and generally be a fucking pain in the arse. 

You can blame the Tories and Labour in the 80's and 90's.

The Tories saw immigrants from Pakistan as being natural Tory voters (what with the small businesses and everything) so they parachuted them into depressed former industrial areas which normally voted Labour.

That lead effectively to ghettos of people from the same place all having very little need to speak English or adapt to local customs.

New Labour did nothing address this and the Liberals, BNP and UKIP go out of their way to exploit it.

Bingowings said:

You can blame the Tories and Labour in the 80's and 90's.

The Tories saw immigrants from Pakistan as being natural Tory voters (what with the small businesses and everything) so they parachuted them into depressed former industrial areas which normally voted Labour.

That lead effectively to ghettos of people from the same place all having very little need to speak English or adapt to local customs.

New Labour did nothing address this and the Liberals, BNP and UKIP go out of their way to exploit it.

Correct. The Labour Party has to shoulder a massive part of the blame for this situation. The BNP are idiots. UKIP aren't. 

Dalek Fred says :

UKIP SUPPORTER DETECTED! THE NON-CONFORMITY HAS BEEN CONFIRMED!! 

Something wrong with supporting UKIP Bingo? 

What makes you ask that?

Well when you reply in that way its usually drenched in sarcasm and disdain. :p

I support Scottish Independence from the UK but I don't agree with the SNP's enthusiasm for the EU (I think Scotland has more in common with the Scandinavian countries than continental Europe and would enter a trade block with them).

With the Liberals and Labour adopting Thatcherism I'm not sure if the UK needs a fourth Tory party.

I would more welcome to see a proper Socialist alternative to Liebour to act as an effective alternative to the Tories. It would do the Conservatives a world of good too. UKIP largely exists because the Parliamentary Tory party doesn't want to be seen to be too old Tory (even though it is).

The current Government is such a shambles that getting rid of them should be a doddle (especially with UKIP splitting the vote).

The only thing practically insuring more of the same after the next election is the brain damaged cartoon leading the opposition. 

I'm no expert on politics but it does interest me. I think UKIP exist and are growing in popularity because a large number of people have had enough of the utter shit from the idiots who are in charge. From what I understand, the crap we have to put up with that comes from the Bureaupratts in Brussels is not what the UK signed up for. The EU can fuck off as far as I'm concerned. UKIP are the only party talking sense and have (it seems) the bollocks to do something about it. And I'd be more than happy to see Scotland have its independence. 

darth_ender said:

I am genuinely smiling.  Please read the following.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_war#Background_to_1949

US supporting a friendly existing government with military intervention.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvadoran_Civil_War

Aid but not military intervention to support existing government.

*cough* Nicaragua *cough* Ypiranga*