Yeah, the sooner we can get test videos out there, the better. I really want to kickstart work on resolving this issue.
So...any progress on those videos?
Just found this:
This apparently is the music exactly in sync with the original theatrical cut of the film. So with editing it back to the original version, syncing the music exactly, you could inverse the phase of the music and eliminate the music and retain the dialog and sound effects with little to no distortion.
Now, if only a CD was released like this for Ep. 2 and 3.
Here's the first vid. The source file to get this was the center channel of the AC3 file, so compare to that mono track and not to the complete audio if you wanna hear what was lost, specially SFX-wise.
To remove the music, sound effects, or dialogue, you have to use a program like Audacity. The channels work like this: Audio channels 1 and 2 are dialogue, channels 3 and 4 are sound effects, and channels 5 and 6 are the music score. I'm working on my own TPM edit and I removed part of Duel Of The Fates and inserted "6M7 The Great Duel". "6M7" was going to be used, but was deleted for favoritism of Duel Of The Fates.
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Star Wars Revisited TESB & ROTJ Ideas.
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emanswfan said:
Just found this:
http://www.amazon.com/Star-Wars-Episode-Phantom-Ultimate/dp/B000051VYS/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1367632043&sr=1-1&keywords=star+wars+ultimate+edition
This apparently is the music exactly in sync with the original theatrical cut of the film. So with editing it back to the original version, syncing the music exactly, you could inverse the phase of the music and eliminate the music and retain the dialog and sound effects with little to no distortion.
Now, if only a CD was released like this for Ep. 2 and 3.
The music is in sync with the movie, except a few places have been cut short, just to move the music along faster:
No TUEs were made for Episode II and III because fans hated this soundtrack for some reason. They bitched and complained about getting a film score, so Sony released a score. About the time Sony was going to release a TUE for AOTC, that's when people started hated the TUE of TPM, so Sony terminated the project for Star Wars TUE. I once saw the Sony webpage advertising the TUE for Episode II and it said that all music in the finished film would be on the 2 disc soundtrack, including all the edited Geonosis battle music from Episode I. I would include a link to the page, but Sony shut the page down several years ago.
Some music was recorded for TPH and first appeared in AOTC. Confusing right? Well, I'll explain. Some music cues were unused because they were part of deleted scenes. So in 1999 lucas basically said Williams "look, when I make Episode II, I'll be sure to include some of the cues from Episode I that were deleted during the Battle of Geonosis. So don't write to much of a battle score when the time comes." and Williams basically said "Sure. Okay."
The Phantom Menace TUE is good when you want to watch the film and just hear the music score, not dialogue or sound effects to interrupt the experience.
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The Nerd said:
The music is in sync with the movie, except a few places have been cut short, just to move the music along faster:
- Disc 1:
- Track 4 Death Warrant For Qui-Gon And Obi-Wan and Track 5 Fighting The Destroyer Droids. The ending string hold has been cut to about 3 seconds.
- Track 20 Desert Winds. This is a bonus track and was not used the film at all.
- Track 31 The Flag Parade does not repeat.
- Track 31 The Flag Parade and Track 32 Sebulba’s Dirty Hand / Qui-Gon’s Pep Talk. The start of track 32 starts sooner.
- Disc 2:
- Track 15 The Queen And Her Group Sneak Back To The Palace and Track 16 The Battle Begins. The ending of track 15 is cut short, it flows right into Track 16 without stopping.
- Track 32 End Credits. This track is not the film ending. The film uses an extremely edited version, TUE version is the same as the album.
No TUEs were made for Episode II and III because fans hated this soundtrack for some reason. They bitched and complained about getting a film score, so Sony released a score. About the time Sony was going to release a TUE for AOTC, that's when people started hated the TUE of TPM, so Sony terminated the project for Star Wars TUE. I once saw the Sony webpage advertising the TUE for Episode II and it said that all music in the finished film would be on the 2 disc soundtrack, including all the edited Geonosis battle music from Episode I. I would include a link to the page, but Sony shut the page down several years ago.
Some music was recorded for TPH and first appeared in AOTC. Confusing right? Well, I'll explain. Some music cues were unused because they were part of deleted scenes. So in 1999 lucas basically said Williams "look, when I make Episode II, I'll be sure to include some of the cues from Episode I that were deleted during the Battle of Geonosis. So don't write to much of a battle score when the time comes." and Williams basically said "Sure. Okay."
The Phantom Menace TUE is good when you want to watch the film and just hear the music score, not dialogue or sound effects to interrupt the experience.
Yes, I wouldn't think the score would be absolutely perfect, a comment on Amazon had said so though. With a little editing around though, it would certainly help with that film.
Interesting info info about TUE's there. It's really sad they cancelled those editions for the other films. John Williams music is still beautiful, though a tad repetitive in the prequels. Although there is better music out there for parts, which is the point of all this.
Mithrandir said:
Here's the first vid. The source file to get this was the center channel of the AC3 file, so compare to that mono track and not to the complete audio if you wanna hear what was lost, specially SFX-wise.
That's pretty well done. Though was the gating really that needed, because the voices sound very unnatural as they pass in and out of the gate. Has there been a way to eliminate the music just as much and have the dialogue sound more natural?
emanswfan said:
The Nerd said:
The music is in sync with the movie...blah blah blah blah blah...dialogue or sound effects to interrupt the experience.
Yes, I wouldn't think the score would be absolutely perfect, a comment on Amazon had said so though. With a little editing around though, it would certainly help with that film.
Interesting info info about TUE's there. It's really sad they cancelled those editions for the other films. John Williams music is still beautiful, though a tad repetitive in the prequels. Although there is better music out there for parts, which is the point of all this.
Some music can be heard in the video games. ROTS has a lot of unreleased music in the games. I'm working on making a TUE for AOTC and ROTS. The only problem is that AOTC has the least amount of unreleased music. Really the only released music is on the soundtrack and about 15 minutes in video games and tracked music from TPM.
So let's do some math here. Th film is 142 minutes, or 2h 22m. The soundtrack is 74 minutes, or 1h 14m, of music. Music in the games is 15m. So, 142 - 74 (ost) - 15 (games + TPM) = 53. Now we have 53 minutes of the film left. About 5-10 minutes of what's left has no music. 48-43 minutes remain unreleased. That's close to an hour, so about an hour of music has not been released.
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Star Wars Revisited TESB & ROTJ Ideas.
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The Nerd said:
The channels work like this: Audio channels 1 and 2 are dialogue, channels 3 and 4 are sound effects, and channels 5 and 6 are the music score.
Pretty sure it does not "work" like this...
Wexter said:
The Nerd said:
The channels work like this: Audio channels 1 and 2 are dialogue, channels 3 and 4 are sound effects, and channels 5 and 6 are the music score.
Pretty sure it does not "work" like this...
Well, it's something like close to that. I know the back channels are reserved for music. I don't really mess around with any of the other channels that much.
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Star Wars Revisited TESB & ROTJ Ideas.
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The Nerd said:
Well, it's something like close to that. I know the back channels are reserved for music. I don't really mess around with any of the other channels that much.
1- Center, 2-Left, 3-Right, 4-Subwoofer,5-Rear Left, 6-Rear Right.
Dialogue and onset audio is focused more towards towards channel 1 with the music, sound effects, and dialogue reverb mixed throughout the other channels.
If it was as you say, this thread wouldn't exist.
The Nerd said:
Wexter said:
The Nerd said:
The channels work like this: Audio channels 1 and 2 are dialogue, channels 3 and 4 are sound effects, and channels 5 and 6 are the music score.
Pretty sure it does not "work" like this...
Well, it's something like close to that. I know the back channels are reserved for music. I don't really mess around with any of the other channels that much.
What....what source are you using? If we're talking about a 5.1 sound mix for a film, your 5 channels are front left, center, front right, rear left and rear right (in some order), plus a 6th channel for the subwoofer ("LFE" or something?) Sound effects, dialogue and music are going to be mixed across all of them, although most dialogue will fall in the front, I think.
Exception: I've heard Clone Wars just keeps dialogue in the center channel.
timdiggerm said:
What....what source are you using? If we're talking about a 5.1 sound mix for a film, your 5 channels are front left, center, front right, rear left and rear right (in some order), plus a 6th channel for the subwoofer ("LFE" or something?) Sound effects, dialogue and music are going to be mixed across all of them, although most dialogue will fall in the front, I think.
Exception: I've heard Clone Wars just keeps dialogue in the center channel.
The source is the widescreen DVDs, i don't think the aspect ratio has anything to do with the sound. But I was able to remove all the sound effects during for my ROTS complete score during the It Can't Be cue scene, where we see part of mustafar and then Anakin crying. Part of the cue that you hear in the scene is unreleased while most is heard on the track Anakin's Dark Deeds.
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Star Wars Revisited TESB & ROTJ Ideas.
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The Nerd said:
The source is the widescreen DVDs, i don't think the aspect ratio has anything to do with the sound. But I was able to remove all the sound effects during for my ROTS complete score during the It Can't Be cue scene, where we see part of mustafar and then Anakin crying. Part of the cue that you hear in the scene is unreleased while most is heard on the track Anakin's Dark Deeds.
What, that doesn't make any sense to me. The DVD's have a mix like that? If it's really like that than post some videos on Vimeo.
emanswfan said:
Mithrandir said:
Here's the first vid. The source file to get this was the center channel of the AC3 file, so compare to that mono track and not to the complete audio if you wanna hear what was lost, specially SFX-wise.
That's pretty well done. Though was the gating really that needed, because the voices sound very unnatural as they pass in and out of the gate. Has there been a way to eliminate the music just as much and have the dialogue sound more natural?
I couldn't tell you that, because I didn't try. I worked with tracks, noise-reducted in different frequencies using the original score as noise profile.
Today I returned to this problem, using the Rear Surround track as noise profile, and despite what seemed, results were worse.
Anyway, I made a masked version of the dialogue back then, using random music (It was anakin vs obiwan theme i believe) and some of the artifacts got slightly camouflated.
I don't have means or an account to upload it, so it's up to eric
Mithrandir said:
I couldn't tell you that, because I didn't try. I worked with trackes, noise-reducted in different frequencies using the original score as noise profile.
Today I returned to this problem, using the Rear Surround track as noise profile, and despite what seemed, results were worse.
Anyway, I made a masked version of the dialogue back then, using random music (It was anakin vs obiwan theme i believe) and some of the artifacts got slightly camouflated.
I don't have means or an account to upload it, so it's up to eric
What are you using to apply noise reduction? Gating settings should exist in the noise reduction interface, since part of using noise reduction is determining and adjusting the noise gate. It's location, strength or weakness of passing in and out of it, etc. I know Audition and other stuff I use has those advanced settings.
If you created the noise profile, it created it at a single volume level for each frequency of noise. You can adjust those to the best levels (reducing the music enough but not cutting the dialogue) and adjust the settings of the noise gate to make it sound natural especially since you'll need a certain level of gating.
Audacity noise reduction filter it is
Well here is a way to make an unreleased song. Let's take the Anakin/Obi-Wan fight scene. When Anakin chokes Obi-Wan on Mustafar we hear drums. These drums are, sadly, not included on the soundtrack. So what you do is take the scene into audacity and separate the audio channels. Listen to each channel 1 at a time and delete the parts of each channel that are sound effects (and/or dialogue). Then you take the soundtrack song and move it into position to line up with the movie music. Delete any thing other than the drums and what do you get? A film version of "6M4 Heroes Collide" aka "Anakin VS Obi-Wan".
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Star Wars Revisited TESB & ROTJ Ideas.
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Mithrandir said:
Here's the first vid. The source file to get this was the center channel of the AC3 file, so compare to that mono track and not to the complete audio if you wanna hear what was lost, specially SFX-wise.
Do you see what I was trying to tell you before about the voice may become hollow or boomey?
It's a good effort and you have not done anything wrong but you can clearly hear where the frequencies you have removed also have removed part of the voice making it sound hollow because the soundtrack has clashed with the bottom end frequencies of the voices and a couple of times sounds boomey where you cut the top end.
Because the frequencies you removed also are spanning a broad spectrum and changing it's creating a phasing effect too.
repeating this process in another program might get you slightly better results but not by much.
It's a cake and you can not pick the sultanas out of it... you can slice it but whatever you decide to cut out of the cake once it is gone it is gone from the cake.
so the sultana you wanted you had to slice it out the cake but in the process you cut the sultana up also.
It's pretty much impossible to cut the sultana out the cake unless whats around it that you want to cut is also well away from it in frequency i.e. distance
Mithrandir said:
Audacity noise reduction filter it is
Hmm...Well let me try to make a video using the same technique using Audition's noise reduction filter. (i'm assuming you made a noise profile using the movie's score disc?)
As you can see there are some more advanced features to tweak the noise floor and stuff to fix the problems with the dialogue.
http://help.adobe.com/en_US/audition/cs/using/WS58a04a822e3e5010548241038980c2c5-7f30.html
Just popping in to say I hope this can be figured out.
Good luck!
I've looked into this before. It can't be done effectively. In the same way that cutting out someone from a photograph doesn't let you see what was behind them at the time, you can't separate music from dialogue and hear them both separately as they were. Some clever software can try and separate frequencies and give you a rough approximation of the individual sounds but you can NEVER unmix sound that's already mixed. The only hope is that one day there'll be a release with just dialogue on the centre channel. Normally doesn't happen though. The rare exception was The Clone Wars CG series. That would be a fan editor's dream if it was actually worth editing.