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Harmy's STAR WARS Despecialized Edition HD - V2.7 - MKV (Released) — Page 351

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Well, seems like I haven't missed much here, other than some dirty socks and other debates which probably belong on other corners of the internets.

Sure, it's been argued to death that some of the changes might not affect the story too much, perhaps, and even that the movies are still generally "close enough" blah blah blah, but to say that it doesn't change the film is silly. To each their own. This is obviously not the place to have that debate.

 

The fact that in 2006, they could not have even done an SD transfer in proper "anamorphic" widescreen is a little sad. I wonder if they didn't just take some existing bootleg and make new menus.

Regarding menus, I might have a very tiny amount of time this week to attempt a test with Arcsoft, which is what came with my burner. Don't see any way to add options for audio track selection though - other software might have better options there.

The more I look at this, the more challenging it looks to create exactly what's envisioned.

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Just because the changes don't always effect the overall story doesn't mean they don't effect the film. The Special Edition version of Star Wars grinds to a halt once the characters reach Mos Eisley — too many unnecessary additions and an additional, redundant scene — which unwinds somewhat what was formerly one of the tightest sections of a very tightly structured film. Vader getting his shuttle at the end of Empire totally disturbs the pace of the otherwise white-knuckle “Hyperspace” sequence and don't get me started on “Jedi Rocks.”

Replacing the sequences in the last battle in Star Wars always struck me as being somewhat disrespectful to the people who developed new methods of achieving those original, ground-breaking special effects and then spent their entire days and often nights realizing them.

My father said that leaving the theater from seeing Star Wars in 1977 and driving home, he felt that he shouldn't be driving, but swooping and diving. That's the effect the original effects had on the original audience, and that's why the original versions of the films ought to be preserved.

“That’s impossible, even for a computer!”

“You don't do ‘Star Wars’ in Dobly.”

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Am I the only one around here who enjoys having both the theatrical release and the special edition releases to watch? My problem with the special editions was not the changes that were made, but that the theatrical versions were not given equal effort for release on new mediums (DVD, BluRay).

I grew up watching a 1980s copy of the film recorded off TV shortly before I was born, and enjoy both versions. 

In fact, I feel that there would be little opposition to the special edition if they had been accompanied by restored transfers of the theatrical versions each time they were released. As in, the bluray would have been accompanied (not necessarily in the same package, but available for sale) by a bluray GOUT.

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Guspaz said:

Am I the only one around here who enjoys having both the theatrical release and the special edition releases to watch? My problem with the special editions was not the changes that were made, but that the theatrical versions were not given equal effort for release on new mediums (DVD, BluRay).

My problem with the SE is that it was half-assed.

Remove matte outlines in this shot. OK!

Forget about the matte outlines in the 30 subsequent shots. Nobody will notice 'em! OK!

A picture is worth a thousand words. Post 102 is worth more.

I’m late to the party, but I think this is the best song. Enjoy!

—Teams Jetrell Fo 1, Jetrell Fo 2, and Jetrell Fo 3

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 (Edited)

valinkrai said:


I picked up the [GOUT] cut of Empire since I read time wise, the most had changed.  I honestly didn't care much about the differences, and for the most part, I still don't believe they change the films, though I love that you guys here are able to compensate for LucasFilm not giving options to those who don't think the same way as I do.

Personally, I'd like a copy of the original cuts, but not enough to deter me from purchasing Blu-rays when my DVDs have long since been scratched. Plus, the Blu-rays got me interested in at least seeing the historical cuts at least once, even if I was okay with changes myself. Unfortunately, I never figured out how to download Harmy's cuts, save for whatever is available through torrents, which I'm getting now

Empire had the least number of changes, so obviously your understanding of the films and their history is rather limited.

And you don't think that Lapti Nek is better than  Jedi Rocks*? Jedi Rocks changes the tone of the entire first act of Return of the Jedi. It's a stupid pop song CGI-fest which in no way improves the film--if anything the film is cheapened by it.

You don't think that Jabba being shown in A New Hope is a significant change? In the original versions, he was only mentioned in conversation until Jedi when we get to actually see him. When we do, he appears as this menacing, sadistic, grotesque creature. If he appears in A New Hope, he looks small (much smaller than the puppet in Jedi), fake, and in no way menacing at all. Heck, Han even steps on his tail and gets away with it. Not to mention that the conversation Han has with him is a repeat of that with Greedo and so does nothing to help the story or character development.

 

There is no reason for many of the changes as they do nothing to improve the films; and many of the inconsistencies and errors in the original versions have never been fixed by ILM---only unofficially by fans such as Adywan.

 

I'm sorry, but your argument is invalid.

 

 

 

 

* = for the love of God and your own sanity, OTer's should not click this.

TV’s Frink said:

chyron just put a big Ric pic in your sig and be done with it.

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chyron8472 wins! Flawless victory.

A picture is worth a thousand words. Post 102 is worth more.

I’m late to the party, but I think this is the best song. Enjoy!

—Teams Jetrell Fo 1, Jetrell Fo 2, and Jetrell Fo 3

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chyron8472 said:

Empire had the least number of changes

Actually, Empire had the most changes of the OT, but those changes were almost entirely barely-noticeable recomps and such, so it seems like a lot of it was left alone--but it wasn't.  Can we take this to another thread?  I love to hate on the SE's as much as the next guy, but this seems like a pretty unproductive derail.

Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)

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Okay then. On-topic it is.


So long as I don't get yelled at by Harmy again. That's no fun.

TV’s Frink said:

chyron just put a big Ric pic in your sig and be done with it.

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chyron8472 said:

Okay then. On-topic it is.


So long as I don't get yelled at by Harmy again. That's no fun.

When did Harmy yell at you? Which post #?

A picture is worth a thousand words. Post 102 is worth more.

I’m late to the party, but I think this is the best song. Enjoy!

—Teams Jetrell Fo 1, Jetrell Fo 2, and Jetrell Fo 3

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 (Edited)

I quite agree (and have said so many times) that the SE's existence wouldn't be a problem at all if the original was available in comparable quality. I do enjoy alternate cuts of other films and it's a matter of personal taste. That is not the point though, the point is that the SE is irrelevant (and highly deceptive to the uniformed viewer) when talking about the history of ILM. Sure, they would have wanted to use digital compositing instead of optical or even CGI if it was available at the time but the point is it wasn't and they achieved something wonderful with what was available. It's like it's quite possible that Picasso would have loved to use Photoshop for some of his paintings if it was available back then, but if you take a picture from Picasso and recreate it in Photoshop, it's not going to be the same picture and it can hardly be used to demonstrate Picasso's brush techniques.

AntcuFaalb said:

When did Harmy yell at you? Which post #?

I'd quite like to know this as well. I'm trying to be nice most of the time. Sometimes I just type an answer quickly and it might come of as snarly or something but it's usually not meant that way.

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Well, maybe not yelling, but at the very least I got told off.

chyron8472 said:

Harmy, in this shot, there seems to be a lot of purple going on:

Harmy said:

Seriously, I'm not touching the colors any more. And why is the quality of that screenshot so god-awful?

 

Like I said. It's no fun.

 

Anyways, how goes the BD extras?

TV’s Frink said:

chyron just put a big Ric pic in your sig and be done with it.

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Well, my personal favorite was when we got you to blow up over flesh tones.* But it stands out because you are otherwise always so level-headed and reasonable. Which, I might add, is just unnatural considering the anarchy of conflicting demands and non-sequiturs we put in this thread for you to sift through.

You are not a big meanie, even at your grumpiest.  The reason we like to get your goat is because it's so hard to get.

* Also, this particular rant made me think "Damn, Harmy's English is better than most native speakers!" (LINK) Maybe it's just me but that's the most endearing post Harmy's ever written.

Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)

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@chyron: Well, it was in reaction to this and some previous color-related post by someone else. And I just really don't want to tweak the colors any more, that's it really. And the question was out of serious interest, because I checked it and it looks miles better on the AVCHD.

I'm sorry, if it felt like I was telling you off.

And the extras are coming along quite nicely - I've got the video side of the extras pretty much ready, now I'm taking care of the audio.

@CatBus: Thanks, dude :-)

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I don't even think I paused the movie when I screenied that, if it would have made an difference.

I don't know. I may have screwed it up somehow in MSPaint.

 

Seriously though, I love what you've done here. There are places where I look at your remaster and then at Adywan's edit, and I ponder as to which is better color-wise (or even if the original version's colors were somehow off to begin with, as I assume Adywan does quite a bit of guessing, given you now have access to resources he may not have had) but I'm not really trying to nitpick and point out inadequacies.

 

One thing I noticed a lot at first as I watched v2.1 it is that Luke looks way more tan than I seem to remember. But then I was watching a certain scene with Luke and Leia together ("find the controls that extend the bridge") and I noticed how she looks absolutely like she should while he still looks very tan, even when they're both in the same shot.

So then I figured either the SE's have ruined my memory or else VHS quality is so comparatively bad that you can't really tell.

TV’s Frink said:

chyron just put a big Ric pic in your sig and be done with it.

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"It's like it's quite possible that Picasso would have loved to use Photoshop for some of his paintings if it was available back then, but if you take a picture from Picasso and recreate it in Photoshop, it's not going to be the same picture and it can hardly be used to demonstrate Picasso's brush techniques."

I love you Harmy.

Star Wars Revisited Wordpress

Star Wars Visual Comparisons WordPress

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I think the tan looks about perfect. There will be differences in shots due to lighting, environment, etc. for sure.

Caution: Repeated viewing of SE can cause memory damage, false memories, and may turn you into a fan of Justin Bieber.

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chyron8472 said:

Okay then. On-topic it is.


So long as I don't get yelled at by Harmy again. That's no fun.

Certainly agree on this point, Harmy is basically one of my new idols and any time I say something that he takes badly, I feel really terrible about it.

But charging through with off-topic for a second anyway, valinkrai is certainly a bit deluded in his thinking, but that is not a slam on him personally, instead it is a long-held fear coming true.  Ever since the second VHS release of the SE came out (that being the first time the SE trilogy dropped the SE and was billed as THE Trilogy) and then those lovely prequels started debuting, the likelihood of the Star Wars we knew and loved being passed on and instilling the same values and nostalgia it did for the generations up until that point, seemed tangibly bleak. With the original versions being officially written off and only their replacements readily available for new generations to experience, the importance and significance of the original accomplishments would diminish, new "fans" would crop up that don't value the integrity of the films, since they're used to them changing regularly and containing silly scenes that undermine the seriousness and charm that frustrated purists were won over by so long ago.  I can only imagine, but someone growing up with the SE I believe might not have the same kind of love and devotion to the series, that when they grow up they'd have an easy time making a clear division that Star Wars was something they only liked as a child (what with the added silly scenes, unneeded tweaks, dated non-groundbreaking effects [CGI], messed up pacing, etc.), not something that affects them beyond that (okay, some people who live perpetually in their parents' basement might have benefited from this, but still) since many of the layers that I've appreciated when watching it at different points in my life have largely been stripped away with all the SE retooling.  It has been cheapened, and that was bound to have deep effects on the future of Star Wars fandom. 

Efforts like those of Harmy are our greatest hope now, with theatrical cuts becoming available at quality acceptable to the increasingly discerning tastes of children that are bombarded with high definition everything, we can try to undo some of the damage and certainly introduce our offspring to the saga the way we feel it should be seen and appreciated.

I will say that to be doing a presentation on ILM and not considering that ALL special effects changes (saying nothing of the other SE alterations) distorts the effort that went into the original, ground-breaking, award-winning effects doesn't speak well to his qualification on this topic.  For better looking for worse, the historical significance of these films is not to be understated, and should be the foremost basis of any comparison.  Rather than (just guessing at one way you may be doing it) having a presentation starting with how great ILM is now and peppering in how they started, it should be approached from all the hurdles they overcame in the beginning and how they evolved (and evolved with) the film industry.

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I'm not saying the tan is wrong. I'm saying I didn't remember him being tan at all really. At least not significantly enough to notice the difference in skin tone between him and Leia.

 

But like I said, I saw this, and realized my memory must really be shot or else the 1995 VHS remasters just don't show this level of detail:

 

I only use the 1995 VHS's as a reference point for basing my memory on because I fully realize the GOUT is crap. That being said, between the GOUT and the SE's, I think my memories have been ruined.

TV’s Frink said:

chyron just put a big Ric pic in your sig and be done with it.

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That is to say, I feel terrible about looking bad to or upsetting Harmy, not that I need to go have a good cry.  Like everyone, I have strong feelings about how my Star Wars should look and feel, and just want to feel like I'm contributing more than hindering, though when you get enough opinionated people together, heads are bound to butt a bit, even if they're aiming for the same goal.

Harmy, you're amazing with the work that you do, and incredibly open to criticism; we love that about you, and we all feel very connected to the project because of it.

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edit: (in reply to yoda-sama) - I feel the same. There are bound to be tons of people now who have no idea what it was really like. .

The first movie laid the groundwork for a lot of things. Nobody had pulled off a movie like this at the time with anywhere near the level of effects. It was quite a feat for ALL involved to make something like this.

Call me old fashioned, but models really do make for a much more real experience than just about any CGI, even of the latest/greatest variety.

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analog said:

Call me old fashioned, but models really do make for a much more real experience than just about any CGI, even of the latest/greatest variety.

Yes, I agree. Just watch Total Recall (1990) for what is possibly the best example of model work for film, ever.

A picture is worth a thousand words. Post 102 is worth more.

I’m late to the party, but I think this is the best song. Enjoy!

—Teams Jetrell Fo 1, Jetrell Fo 2, and Jetrell Fo 3

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 (Edited)

True enough, they did a great job with what they had to work with.

Have a great memory of watching old VHS SW and commenting that "this was way ahead of its time"

chyron - understandable. I've certainly got bits of memory like that, where one thing or another seems different or odd to me.
Probably saw the 80's VHS copies so many times as a kid that it's the version I specifically remember the best. Getting the SE VHS set in '97/'98 was nifty, but all the changes were just odd (edit: by "odd" I mean fucked up beyond repair, esp. the ROTJ Jabba scene with a pathetic excuse for 'music,' the Ewok song being re-written terribly, Empire having a bunch of weird additional scenes, and "A New Hope" having tons of awkward changes...).

In many areas, however, they seem to have not screwed up the colors as badly as the later DVD set that I got ('06). Swore I'd never get another edition, until the originals were published on DVD, which I did finally buy when they came out. The crushed blacks, weird color choices were just absolutely horrible though. When I first played those SE discs, I thought my setup was somehow broken, that Macrovision had been accidentally triggered, or that my TV was dying. I tried again one other time to watch the '04 DVD set (silver box) that a girlfriend had, and it was also beyond hope to tweak the LCD being used at that time to make it look even halfway watchable.

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Guys, for the offtopic discussion you should really check these pages :

https://picasaweb.google.com/102542760950977079734/StarWarsSpecialEditionChangesHD?noredirect=1

https://picasaweb.google.com/102542760950977079734/EmpireSpecialEditionChangesHD?noredirect=1

https://picasaweb.google.com/102542760950977079734/JediSpecialEditionChangesHD?noredirect=1

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pittrek said:

Guys, for the offtopic discussion you should really check these pages :

https://picasaweb.google.com/102542760950977079734/StarWarsSpecialEditionChangesHD?noredirect=1

https://picasaweb.google.com/102542760950977079734/EmpireSpecialEditionChangesHD?noredirect=1

https://picasaweb.google.com/102542760950977079734/JediSpecialEditionChangesHD?noredirect=1

Okay, yes. My memory is shot.

I remember the speeder being pink (especially the racing stripes), and I noticed that the whole dang thing is brown in the DeEd.

Then I see this in that comparison gallery (bottom is SE):

 

And my suspicion is confirmed. It's not pink. It's not supposed to be pink.

 

Damn you Lucas.

TV’s Frink said:

chyron just put a big Ric pic in your sig and be done with it.