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Religion — Page 26

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 (Edited)

Trooperman said:

God is anywhere good is.  Everything good is from God.  Everything bad is from the devil.

But why?

Why would you believe this to be the case? It is so simplistic, and dare I say, silly. It is Saturday morning kids cartoon sort of simplistic (and by saying that, I feel like I am being way too harsh on Saturday morning kids cartoons). And still, why? What reason do you have to believe everything good comes from God, and everything evil comes from the devil? The Bible tells you? As we've seen the last few pages, almost every Christian here takes a very different stance on how seriously to take the Bible. Because you know God exists by this warm fuzzy feeling you get in your heart? Maybe that is just taking comfort in the thought that you have a giant invisible friend who has got your back, and who you can take reassurance that people who do "evil" things will always have to pay in the end.

 

When I was a little kid, I had an imaginary friend. When I got in fights with other kids at pre-school, or when somebody was picking on me, I'd go off to be by myself and I'd talk to my imaginary friend. We'd tell jokes, and laugh, and together we'd make fun of the kids who were being mean to me. That other kid may have been bigger than me, and totally ripped that waffle block from my hands, but now me and my imaginary buddy were whispering about how weird his nose looks. I got genuine comfort from this. At least I always had him to talk to, at least he always understood me.

At some point I grew up enough to realize an imaginary friend was silly, and that I needed to make real friends rather than retreat to be alone anytime I got uncomfortable. I remember lying in bed talking to my friend and telling him it was time to go. I imagined him slowly, sadly, dramatically riding away on his horse (Yes, he had a horse. I got to ride it sometimes! He had a dog too). As he rode away tears began uncontrollably rolling down my face and my heart felt crushed. I clutched my blanket tightly to my chest and cried myself to sleep.

I was so very small, but I remember this farewell so very clearly. Emotional attachment, feelings of comfort, those things don't mean something is real. I had the advantage of knowing my friend wasn't real, because I made him up myself.

 

It took me a long time to make the leap from theist to agnostic. It had been hammered into me from a young age. Bible stories at bedtime, Sunday school each week, say your prayers before bedtime and at every meal. I often felt guilty when I'd fall asleep before I finished praying. Sometimes I'd nod off in the middle of my prayer, and then I'd apologize and start over. It seemed unspeakably rude to nod off while talking to the creator and ruler of the Universe.

I spent a period of time still being a "theist" while not really believing before I became comfortable enough to admit to myself I was an agnostic. I went to church every Sunday, and I still prayed sometimes. One night, I met this really fun and attractive blond, we hit it off and talked for hours. Eventually we went back to her place, stayed up half the night watching movies, started making out, and things escalated. I woke up beside her the next morning, the sun shining golden on her curly hair and reflecting off the smooth skin of her naked body. I felt overwhelmed with warmth, excitement, happiness, anticipation. As it should be. No guilt. I'd always felt guilt in the past, even when things didn't go anywhere near as far as they had gone the night before. That day I was able to admit to myself that I was agnostic.

My dad would probably call that, "Searing your conscious with a hot iron", i.e., I finally desensitized myself to the point that I didn't feel guilty about it.

I feel that it had more to do with getting over my separation anxiety with an imaginary friend, one that I was unable to let go of until adulthood.

This one was a lot harder than that first one I said goodbye to back in pre-school. I didn't make this one up, somebody else did. Everyone I knew still talked to and about this one. From infancy on up, this imaginary friend had been pressed upon me. And, yeah, he brought me a lot of comfort in the past, just like the one I had in pre-school. When something is so deeply enculterated into you, it can be really hard to let go of and move on from. 

When people talk about knowing in their heart that God is real, it is hard for me to forget that, I too, felt that way once. All my life my skeptical brain questioned him and doubted, but I couldn't let go, there was always this nagging feeling inside me. This separation anxiety from a concept deeply saturated in my culture and in my upbringing.

Looking back I know that is all it ever was. It was a grown up version of that little kid who cried his eyes out when he said goodbye to his imaginary friend, this time, doubting his own doubt, and having a hard time dropping a concept he was closely surrounded by all his life.

 

I used to have many Muslim friends. One in particular I was close enough with to have religious conversations. "How can you be so sure Allah is real?" I once asked him. "Because", he smiled warmly, "I can feel in my heart that he is real."

 

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CP3S said:

Trooperman said:

God is anywhere good is.  Everything good is from God.  Everything bad is from the devil.

But why?

Why would you believe this to be the case? It is so simplistic, and dare I say, silly.... And still, why? What reason do you have to believe everything good comes from God, and everything evil comes from the devil? The Bible tells you? As we've seen the last few pages, almost every Christian here takes a very different stance on how seriously to take the Bible. Because you know God exists by this warm fuzzy feeling you get in your heart? Maybe that is just taking comfort in the thought that you have a giant invisible friend who has got your back, and who you can take reassurance that people who do "evil" things will always have to pay in the end.

Hmmm...I believe it because I pray to God every single day and I know He is watching over me.  I think it isn't silly at all.  With regards to your comment on Biblical interpretation, I am Roman Catholic, which means that the books in the Bible are basically supporting documents that confirm what we already know, which is the faith passed down from Jesus to the apostles and then through the centuries for 2000 years.

Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side

Emperor Jar-Jar
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition

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I too talk to at least one deity every day.

But I'm not scared of him, he's my pal, he isn't even my best pal and he is a 100% conceptual being.

His origin story is clearly made up to explain his apparent look etc which is 100% symbolic.

So even though I chat with a deity I know most aspects of his 'past' are made up.

But that's true of many people who post on here and I like them too (I not scared of any of them but I like them).

They are pleasant and helpful not wrathful and gittish.

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Trooperman said:

CP3S said:

Trooperman said:

God is anywhere good is.  Everything good is from God.  Everything bad is from the devil.

But why?

Why would you believe this to be the case? It is so simplistic, and dare I say, silly.... And still, why? What reason do you have to believe everything good comes from God, and everything evil comes from the devil? The Bible tells you? As we've seen the last few pages, almost every Christian here takes a very different stance on how seriously to take the Bible. Because you know God exists by this warm fuzzy feeling you get in your heart? Maybe that is just taking comfort in the thought that you have a giant invisible friend who has got your back, and who you can take reassurance that people who do "evil" things will always have to pay in the end.

Hmmm...I believe it because I pray to God every single day and I know He is watching over me.

Me: But how do you really know for sure?
You: I just know
Me: Can't argue with that.

 

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CP3S said:

One night, I met this really fun and attractive blond, we hit it off and talked for hours. Eventually we went back to her place, stayed up half the night watching movies, started making out, and things escalated. I woke up beside her the next morning, the sun shining golden on her curly hair and reflecting off the smooth skin of her naked body. I felt overwhelmed with warmth, excitement, happiness, anticipation. As it should be. No guilt. I'd always felt guilt in the past, even when things didn't go anywhere near as far as they had gone the night before. That day I was able to admit to myself that I was agnostic.

God doesn't want people to abstain from sex.  Just the kind of sex that screws up (pun probably not intended) their lives or the lives of any children that might enter into the fray.

IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!

"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005

"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM

"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.

Rewrite the Prequels!

 

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xhonzi said:

CP3S said:

One night, I met this really fun and attractive blond, we hit it off and talked for hours. Eventually we went back to her place, stayed up half the night watching movies, started making out, and things escalated. I woke up beside her the next morning, the sun shining golden on her curly hair and reflecting off the smooth skin of her naked body. I felt overwhelmed with warmth, excitement, happiness, anticipation. As it should be. No guilt. I'd always felt guilt in the past, even when things didn't go anywhere near as far as they had gone the night before. That day I was able to admit to myself that I was agnostic.

God doesn't want people to abstain from sex.  Just the kind of sex that screws up (pun probably not intended) their lives or the lives of any children that might enter into the fray.

The band?

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 (Edited)

xhonzi said:

CP3S said:

One night, I met this really fun and attractive blond, we hit it off and talked for hours. Eventually we went back to her place, stayed up half the night watching movies, started making out, and things escalated. I woke up beside her the next morning, the sun shining golden on her curly hair and reflecting off the smooth skin of her naked body. I felt overwhelmed with warmth, excitement, happiness, anticipation. As it should be. No guilt. I'd always felt guilt in the past, even when things didn't go anywhere near as far as they had gone the night before. That day I was able to admit to myself that I was agnostic.

God doesn't want people to abstain from sex.  Just the kind of sex that screws up (pun probably not intended) their lives or the lives of any children that might enter into the fray.

Serious question now...if this is the case (and it does make sense to me, btw), what do so many religions have against birth control?

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TV's Frink said:

Serious question now...if this is the case (and it does make sense to me, btw), what do so many religions have against birth control?

Well, it introduces something man-made and artificial into the sex act, which is natural, which makes it less about sharing with another person and more about self-gratification or mutual masturbation.

Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side

Emperor Jar-Jar
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition

Author
Time
 (Edited)

TV's Frink said:

xhonzi said:

God doesn't want people to abstain from sex.  Just the kind of sex that screws up (pun probably not intended) their lives or the lives of any children that might enter into the fray.

Serious question now...if this is the case (and it does make sense to me, btw), what do so many religions have against birth control?

I know our differing opinions on abortion, so I'll keep that in mind with the following comments...

Religions who are against abortion are often against birth control means that are 'abortive'.  Not all birth control is.  I for one, and most of the Christians I know, have no problem with non-abortive birth control.

Other religions believe that intercourse is only meant for procreation.  Therefore birth control is unneeded.

I am led to believe that other people/religions think it's cheating to do it and not have the chance of getting pregnant.  It's possible these people see sex as something dirty or evil... and that it balances the scales if you don't enjoy it too much or too frequently as the use of birth control would allow.

Historically, birth control was only used by loose women.  Sort of similar to pierced ears or pants.  I think that the older generation might still see it that way (my mom never had her ears pierced, though she let my sisters get theirs pierced, and she has been known to wear pants).

That's all I got.

IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!

"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005

"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM

"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.

Rewrite the Prequels!

 

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Time
 (Edited)

A spring mattress introduces something man-made and artificial into the sex act, which is natural . Antibiotics introduces something man-made and artificial into natural disease. The internet introduces something man-made and artificial to the act of communication which is natural. 

Religion introduces something man-made and artificial into the act of living which is natural.

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Bingowings said:

A spring mattress introduces something man-made and artificial into the sex act, which is natural . Antibiotics introduces something man-made and artificial into natural disease. The internet introduces something man-made and artificial to the act of communication which is natural. 

Religion introduces something man-made and artificial into the act of living which is natural.

The spring mattress does not change the nature of the sexual act.  You can have sex anywhere- on a bed, in a tub, in a car, in a meadow.  LOL

Antibiotics are moral because they save people from disease, which is good. 

The Internet is another medium of communication like writing letters, faxing, telegraph, and the telephone.  Nothing wrong with that.

The act of living is natural, I agree.  Where we disagree is that religion is unnatural.  I believe religion is as natural as life itself. 

 

Think about it- through the millenia, why have different peoples from completely different backgrounds, livelihoods, times, and social status turned to God if He didn't exist?

Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side

Emperor Jar-Jar
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition

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 (Edited)

All over the world people from completely different backgrounds, livelihoods, times and social status have believed in homoeopathy and believe it's good for them (it's just water).

All over the world people from completely different backgrounds, livelihoods, times and social status have believed that aliens travel from one galaxy to another just so they can stick probes up human poop chutes.

People believe things, it doesn't mean those things are true or important.

It doesn't make it catholic in the true sense of the word either because of the variety of things people believe.

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Trooperman said:

TV's Frink said:

Serious question now...if this is the case (and it does make sense to me, btw), what do so many religions have against birth control?

Well, it introduces something man-made and artificial into the sex act, which is natural, which makes it less about sharing with another person and more about self-gratification or mutual masturbation.

This makes zero sense to me.  When I have sex with my lovely wife, if we don't use a condom, it's a shared experience.  If we do use a condom, we're just pleasing ourselves and not each other.

*taco roll*

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xhonzi said:

TV's Frink said:

xhonzi said:

God doesn't want people to abstain from sex.  Just the kind of sex that screws up (pun probably not intended) their lives or the lives of any children that might enter into the fray.

Serious question now...if this is the case (and it does make sense to me, btw), what do so many religions have against birth control?

I know our differing opinions on abortion, so I'll keep that in mind with the following comments...

Religions who are against abortion are often against birth control means that are 'abortive'.  Not all birth control is.  I for one, and most of the Christians I know, have no problem with non-abortive birth control.

Other religions believe that intercourse is only meant for procreation.  Therefore birth control is unneeded.

I am led to believe that other people/religions think it's cheating to do it and not have the chance of getting pregnant.  It's possible these people see sex as something dirty or evil... and that it balances the scales if you don't enjoy it too much or too frequently as the use of birth control would allow.

Historically, birth control was only used by loose women.  Sort of similar to pierced ears or pants.  I think that the older generation might still see it that way (my mom never had her ears pierced, though she let my sisters get theirs pierced, and she has been known to wear pants).

That's all I got.

I find this to be a much more reasonable response that Trooper's.

 

Except for the part about the pants.  The looser you are, the less likely you are to wear them.

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I was waiting at the bus stop this morning, minding my own business, when a Jehovah's Witness pulled up in her car, got out, and started blah blah blahing about some meeting and gave me a flyer before getting back in her car and driving off.

The moral of this story? Jehovah's Witnesses never fail to discover new and interesting ways of alienating everyone outside of their annoying little cult.

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It's always loose women, never painfully sore men I notice.

 

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TV's Frink said:

Trooperman said:

TV's Frink said:

Serious question now...if this is the case (and it does make sense to me, btw), what do so many religions have against birth control?

Well, it introduces something man-made and artificial into the sex act, which is natural, which makes it less about sharing with another person and more about self-gratification or mutual masturbation.

This makes zero sense to me.  When I have sex with my lovely wife, if we don't use a condom, it's a shared experience.  If we do use a condom, we're just pleasing ourselves and not each other.

*taco roll*

Question though, if you don't mind.

If she's your wife, why use a condom?

Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side

Emperor Jar-Jar
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition

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So there is a reduced chance of pregnancy... (just a guess)?

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 (Edited)

Regulating the amount of children you have is a loving act.

If you have children already you maximise the time and resources you can allocate to those children and if you haven't you can pick a time when you are better prepared financially and emotionally to start a family or pick never to have them if you believe that to be for the best while still enjoying sexual physical intimacy.

It's also wise to not fill up the planet too quickly with humans with there funny ways without a viable method of moving them elsewhere when space and resources start to run out.

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My wife also likes using a condom because I'm a filthy whore and who knows where I've been.

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A quick interjection (breaking my vow of silence momentarily) to point out that this thread is not about proving any particular religion or simply a belief in God at all to be true or false. I don't wan this to continue as an argument about the validity of one's faith or another's atheism. I cannot prove an atheist is wrong (which I assure you was never my intent a few pages back), and an atheist cannot prove that God does not exist or that a person has not experienced a very personal experience. One's loss of faith in spite of previous spiritual experience does not equate its falsity in another. And just because 7 billion people have reached slightly to dramatically different conclusions from one another on one topic or another does not mean that all views (but the purely scientific) are false or close to it.

This thread was started to promote understanding, not alienation. What I hope to read about are things like the discussion on birth control, a perfectly valid discussion. Or perhaps we could hear more about why someone does not believe: that's very interesting and worthy of discussion. What I do not want to read about is why I shouldn't believe, or why someone else shouldn't believe. And what I want to hear least about are sarcastic comments about a someone else's spiritual experiences and how they falsely equate to Star Wars folklore. I sorta consider that in bad taste.

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I apologize for calling myself a whore.  Of course, I'm not wearing pants at the moment...