Indy Blu-rays announced — Page 9

So despite evidence to the contrary (namely that 35mm print, which is indeed not definite proof) that the blu-ray is at least closer to the theatrical timing than the dvds,. You maintain that your memory (humans have been shown to be very flawed in remembering things like colors) is more accurate than any of the evidence shown in this thread?

Anyway I've said what I think about the blu-ray, and I think if you don't agree with me, I doubt you'll ever agree.

(and no the blu-ray isn't perfectly accurate either, but as I said I'll 'blame' that on digital color timing) 

dlvh said:

I see that there are links to the WoWoW veersion on the Paradox site, but they are so slow. 

They're extremely fast if you get a subscription to netload.  There's a two day subscription that's pretty cheap.  WoWoW Raiders is definitely worth it IMO.

jero32 said:

So despite evidence to the contrary (namely that 35mm print, which is indeed not definite proof) that the blu-ray is at least closer to the theatrical timing than the dvds,. You maintain that your memory (humans have been shown to be very flawed in remembering things like colors) is more accurate than any of the evidence shown in this thread?

Anyway I've said what I think about the blu-ray, and I think if you don't agree with me, I doubt you'll ever agree.

(and no the blu-ray isn't perfectly accurate either, but as I said I'll 'blame' that on digital color timing) 

Yes, that is correct. My memory, along with the 2003 DVD release (which I am currently scrutinizing over as we speak) and the WoWoW  project, all point to the fact that the Bluray is flawed in both brightness, contrast and color timing. The Bluray is too Orange(ish)-Yellow in color and brightened a bit too much, in laymen's terms. You_Too demonstrates this pretty well in post #161 in this thread, even though he used "Temple Of Doom" to prove a point, and ROTLA has even a bit darker look to it than Temple Of Doom did in most parts...IMHO.

Another good indication to look at, is the WoWoW youtube comparison, and this is what I experienced in the theater in 1981 and still see in the 2003 DVD release:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQhCypYcjBo

I hope that help explain it a bit better, but if not, I will try and get some comparison shots posted here before too long.

dlvh

I've checked some comparisons and to me it looks like the skintones are overall too pink in the WoWoW version.

I stil havent' seen any proof other than your questionable memory, and previous releases. 

The actual original 35mm on the other hand is a thing we actually have pictures of now (yes, they werent professionally scanned, but they look closer to the bluray than the dvds, very unlikely to shift so close to the blu-ray by accident I think)

And again, no the blu-ray isn't without any flaw. I'm merely claiming its MORE accurate.

edit: it appears the ebay auction is down now. Did anyone happen to think to save the pictures for future reference?

Anyone with a blu-ray rip that could rip the corrosponding frames (or close to them) for reference?

Since I don't have a blu-ray reader in the computer I googled around for screenshots, and balanced a couple of the shots from ebay to compare.

All I did was black, white and mid level adjustment to get rid of any fade-tints, and then I made the overall brightness match the BD so it's easier to compare.

OK, This first image is from my 2003 ROTLA DVD. Notice in particular, how the plane is a nice Silver/Gray color, like a lot of planes were of that era, and notice the other items in this snapshot:

And this is from the Bluray release. Notice how the colors are a fair amount different in the shirt, the water and the plane itself:

Now I also know that peoples TV's or Projectors may be setup a bit different colorwise & brightness wise, and this may in part, be the reason I am seeing different colors & brightness than other people are.

This is only one example of what the difference is between the Bluray and the 2003 DVD release, but to me, everything thing looks just a lot more natural on the DVD version. I may be wrong, I never said that I was right, only that this is my opinion. Everyone has one.

And, I have gone through this thread, read the posts, and still believe the Bluray is not the best looking, for the reasons stated above, but again, it is only my opinion given various media and how my devices are setup.

Yeah, but when they made the color timing for the DVD it seems as if they wanted a neutral look.

The BD sure doesn't have a natural look to it overall, so of course it's a matter of taste.

Harmy said:

Hang on a second there dlvh - we were never talking about what looks better (that is very subjective) but what is more accurate to the original. Now, you claimed to remember the colors looking more like the DVD version, so basically you claimed not that the DVD version was better looking in your opinion but that you thought it looked more like the original.

But even if you did remember the impression you got from the colors in 1981, you must take into account that the brain automatically adjusts for visuals - if you're sitting in a dark cinema and then the film starts and it looks consistently warm from the beginning, your brain automatically adjusts to it and you perceive it as natural colors, unless of course you consciously take note of the color timing, which no one normally does, especially not on the initial release of the film, so you came out of the cinema, remembering natural looking colors.

I looked at the DVD shot you posted and sure enough, it registered as pretty natural, so when I switched to the warmer BD shot, it of course seemed too warm to my brain, but I kept looking at the BD shot for a few more seconds and then switched back to the DVD shot and suddenly the DVD shot registered as too cold.

This works pretty much the same way, only over a longer period of time - you were used to watching the DVD colors for years, so the colors on the BD register as wrong regardles of whether they are closer to the original color timing.

Harmy, I mostly agree with your statements here about how the brain remembers visuals, except for the fact that, ever since I saw Star Wars in the theater in 1977, I became used to the fact that theaters show movies in what I, and now you, call NATURAL colors (like IMHO the 2003 DVD) are. IF I were to have gone to another movie and saw it in what you call WARM colors, I would have wondered why that movies colors were so...off compared to what Star Wars (and now ROTLA) was. 

I very much enjoy old movies that are broadcast, that are of the vintage era...the later 30's - the 50's. It was the golden age of Technicolor, and although I love the color of those movies, my eyes and brain realize that those are completely different than anything you might see in the theaters now days, but it is beautiful none-the-less, but certainly not Natural compared to modern-day (post Technicolor era) movies.

Just the look of this Bluray release immediately registered to my brain as...WRONG...too Warm, from what I remember seeing in the DVD and in the theater, and yes, unnatural, to me. I cannot speak to what you may have perceived if you were to have seen this in the theater in 1981, but if you did, I would likely say, that you would have called the color timing "Natural", but depending on what you may have been used to, it could have been considered to COLD as well, compared to the Blu rays "Warm" look is... IMO anyway. 

Perhaps I am misunderstanding what the original color timing is, if it's not what was displayed in the theater in 1981, and in the 2003 DVD, and then to what I perceive as Natural vs the Blu rays Warm color timing?

Hope that clears somethings up.

dlvh

This thread is hilarious.

I doubt 1990 prints were very much different. (again this goes back to people memorizing colors) What might have had something to do with it though, is that I think (projectionists please chime in) by the 90s most cinemas had switched to cooler bulbs. So that could explain why everything would've looked a little cooler.

The dvd colors could've been a concious choice, maybe they tried to make it match temple of doom and last crusade more.