The Unofficial Complete REVISITED SAGA Ideas and Random Discussion Thread — Page 20

Burgundy, indigo and yellow are just the three primary colours and only Anakin was yellow.

So it was red and blue which makes the ships no more colourful than the sabers or the lasers in the OT.

no-one is talking about lightsabers......by necessity they are bright and flashy looking......the comment was about ships.

One side has indigo markings the other has burgundy markings and Hayden is yellow.

Is that much different from the OT where one side have red, yellow, burgundy and the other has grey, white and blue?

There is a lot wrong with the PT but some things actually make sense.

I think a lot of people just want the whole saga to look like ANH but it doesn't make sense because one is Germany under the Nazis and the other is World War One.

I'm totally with you that there should be a difference......but I think they exaggerated the look of it.....of everything. 

In terms of what the ROTS opening should look like, aalenfae's more or less hitting the nail on the head. Check it out, it's pretty awesome: 

http://vimeo.com/43686972

lol. Doesn't anyone like the buzz droids?

Nope.

DominicCobb said:

In terms of what the ROTS opening should look like, aalenfae's more or less hitting the nail on the head. Check it out, it's pretty awesome: 

http://vimeo.com/43686972

That IS really kickass......but I'd make even more changes. For starters I'd show the battle going on underneath that first Star Destroyer when the camera first pans down.....otherwise its a huge continuity error for the sake of a reveal. The addition of radio chatter was awesome. I'd remove a little bit of color still......it was closer to what I'd love to see, but still a bit too colorful IMHO (Ep I&II could potentially have a little more color in places....but by Ep III we should start to see a dirtier, more used universe, leading into the OT). Blue lasers would be gone...from the entire PT. And holy hell would I trim out a lot of useless dialogue....even from this vastly improved clip......TPM and ROTS are probably the PT films I've watched the least and man am I ever reminded of why when I DO see a clip from them.....the dialogue is just awful.

I'd change the shot to keep the reveal.

It took a lot of pointing out to me from Ady before I noticed the continuity issue but I like the intension.

It must be possible to pull it off and not have the continuity errors.

The opening crawl says there's a war on......the reveal is already done....no need to clumsily hide it visually as well. 

The only way to keep a reveal would be to completely change the composition of the shot......and that is a LOT of work when all you need to do to remove the error is to put the battle in behind the SD in the pan down.

So while many utterly hate the Ewoks, I see no way to remove them and still make an enjoyable film. But then of course it would be Adywan's/anyone else's aim to minimize their presence as much as possible. Well, I think the following ideas can perhaps best utilize them whilst keeping them, since they were originally supposed to be the primitive Wookiees that defeat the technologically superior Empire anyway:

1) Redub them, make them tougher, more vicious sounding.

2) Remove the cheesiest and "cutest" stuff of course.

3) Perhaps physically alter their appearance, though I doubt this could be done effectively--perhaps something simple but creepy, like glowing eyes.

4) Somehow indicate that they have been planning an attack upon the Empire for some time. Using Anthony Daniels' lines from the radio drama, as demonstrated by...SSWR (I think?) and incorporated into my theoretical edit found in my link, could go a long way to convince the viewer that they are pretty tough. If we saw stormtrooper armor and/or corpses in the Ewok huts (ideally during the Han Solo cookout), showing Ewoks setting up log traps, and incorporating Tony Daniels lines together could really sell the package. That way, even though Ady intends to place more emphasis on the commando actions, we would still be able to better believe the Ewoks' efforts were effective as well.

Sorry for double posting, but I'm also reading the ROTJ novelization, and one thing I think it does more effectively than the film is portray Luke' slippery slope. While the reader sees a wiser, more subdued Luke, he also sees a more sadistic Luke, feeling guiltless as he chokes the Gammorean guards (for a moment) and taking pleasure in the knowledge that Jabba's unwillingness to let Han go will actually justify Luke killing him (it actually reads like that: Luke hoped that Jabba would turn down the kind offers so that he could rid the galaxy of him). I wonder if there is some way this could be better conveyed on the screen, as it makes Luke seem to slide perilously close to the dark side and makes his decision to not kill Vader more dramatic.

muddyknees2000 said:

The opening crawl says there's a war on......the reveal is already done....no need to clumsily hide it visually as well. 

The only way to keep a reveal would be to completely change the composition of the shot......and that is a LOT of work when all you need to do to remove the error is to put the battle in behind the SD in the pan down.

The only other film to have something interesting happen at the beginning is ANH.

And I don't mean just action I mean visual story telling.

Here we see Coruscant, the crystal calm heart of the Republic and after a second of serenity, the reality, the war has made it even to there.

The PT gets so much wrong and is so visually dull it should be acknowledged when it attempts to do something interesting.

Where it fails it should be helped to succeed.

The baby shouldn't be thrown out with the bath water.

As for the crawl, are those words set in stone?

I really hope the ROTJ crawl is altered as well as pretty much every PT one.

darth_ender said:

Sorry for double posting, but I'm also reading the ROTJ novelization, and one thing I think it does more effectively than the film is portray Luke' slippery slope. While the reader sees a wiser, more subdued Luke, he also sees a more sadistic Luke, feeling guiltless as he chokes the Gammorean guards (for a moment) and taking pleasure in the knowledge that Jabba's unwillingness to let Han go will actually justify Luke killing him (it actually reads like that: Luke hoped that Jabba would turn down the kind offers so that he could rid the galaxy of him). I wonder if there is some way this could be better conveyed on the screen, as it makes Luke seem to slide perilously close to the dark side and makes his decision to not kill Vader more dramatic.

It's bad enough with the PT Anakin killing children before turning to the dark side.

I'd cut the Force choke.

Let him be a Jedi for a bit before he is tested by the Sith.

It will make his gleeful second over the fallen Vader so much more powerful.

Bingowings said:

muddyknees2000 said:

The opening crawl says there's a war on......the reveal is already done....no need to clumsily hide it visually as well. 

The only way to keep a reveal would be to completely change the composition of the shot......and that is a LOT of work when all you need to do to remove the error is to put the battle in behind the SD in the pan down.

The only other film to have something interesting happen at the beginning is ANH.

And I don't mean just action I mean visual story telling.

Here we see Coruscant, the crystal calm heart of the Republic and after a second of serenity, the reality, the war has made it even to there.

The PT gets so much wrong and is so visually dull it should be acknowledged when it attempts to do something interesting.

Where it fails it should be helped to succeed.

The baby shouldn't be thrown out with the bath water.

As for the crawl, are those words set in stone?

I really hope the ROTJ crawl is altered as well as pretty much every PT one.

Can't say I disagree...I was simply looking at it from a workload point of view, AND...speaking of re-editing it...the film WILL work better once its been Revisited....so it will have other big moments, thus reducing our need to remain attached to THIS specific one.

darth_ender said:

I wonder if there is some way this could be better conveyed on the screen, as it makes Luke seem to slide perilously close to the dark side and makes his decision to not kill Vader more dramatic.

Yeah I'd love to see this accomplished......and my thinking is that it could be relatively simple. When Jabba says "There will be no bargain".....all Luke has to do is smile.

Regarding colorful ships in the Prequels, it's not so much that there is color, it's that it is too much.

Bingowings is right that the Rebels were differentiated from the Empire by their more colorful ships. But what bothers me is not fighters or smaller vessels having color-distinctive marking, it's the huge capital ships. Even the Rebel cruisers in RotJ were "bland" and gray(-ish). What distinguished them was their uniquely different design than the Star Destroyers; one was angular, industrial, aggressive looking ship. The cruiser was smoother, rounder, more organic looking.

And I think that the difference of having no or very little color helped with the issue of scale. Every time I watch the Battle of Coruscant in RotS, which has numerous other issues, I have the feeling I am looking at over-blown A-Wings. The ships don't have scale and look far too colorful and plastic for supposedly huge, tens of millions of tons of metal-clad warships.

The TPM as an example. Sure, it had some of the most colorful designs in the Naboo ships and the pod racers. But the Trade Federation designs, and the Republic diplomatic cruiser, while being color-distinctive still looked realistic. Their colors were more dull, muted. It was the overall coloration that distinguished them (the Trade Federation had brown and beige hues) rather than bright, flashy markings.

And the "donut ships" looked far better in TPM, even in AotC, than the flashy version in RotS. Due to it's distinctive design, not color markings.

Just my humble opinion. :)

In AOTC and TPM none of the capital ship owners were officially at war.

Indeed in the OT the rebel capital ships were largely civilian ships commandeered by  the Alliance.

It would make sense for them to keep their civilian livery as a disguise when traveling through Imperial monitored space (it's a covert espionage driven civil war).

"...we're on a diplomatic mission".

In real life during a period of out and out war even commandeered civilian ships get a livery change to stop fleets from firing on their own ships, on hospital ships or on non-combatant ships.

Like the weathering factor on models these visual cues should be applied to tell a story.

And a worn down but war painted pair of fleets knocking the hell out of each other makes sense at that point in the story.

Just as a pristine set of ships in AOTC and TPM makes sense and a grey colourless advanced Imperial fleet at the end of ROTS and during the OT makes sense.

Making everything look like the Millennium Falcon doesn't make sense at any point of the story.

darth_ender said:

So while many utterly hate the Ewoks, I see no way to remove them and still make an enjoyable film. But then of course it would be Adywan's/anyone else's aim to minimize their presence as much as possible. Well, I think the following ideas can perhaps best utilize them whilst keeping them, since they were originally supposed to be the primitive Wookiees that defeat the technologically superior Empire anyway:

1) Redub them, make them tougher, more vicious sounding.

2) Remove the cheesiest and "cutest" stuff of course.

3) Perhaps physically alter their appearance, though I doubt this could be done effectively--haps something simple but creepy, like glowing eyes.

4) Somehow indicate that they have been planning an attack upon the Empire for some time. Using Anthony Daniels' lines from the radio drama, as demonstrated by...SSWR (I think?) and incorporated into my theoretical edit found in my link, could go a long way to convince the viewer that they are pretty tough. If we saw stormtrooper armor and/or corpses in the Ewok huts (ideally during the Han Solo cookout), showing Ewoks setting up log traps, and incorporating Tony Daniels lines together could really sell the package. That way, even though Ady intends to place more emphasis on the commando actionsjj, we would still be able to better believe the Ewoks' efforts were efhhffhfhfective as well

4 is what i thought had been the case when i first seen the film back in 83, when they revealed all these staged catipults and such.

but like you, i wished threepio would have mentioned that the ewoks were planning an attack before the rebels got there, anyway.

QFT?

Bingowings said:

Making everything look like the Millennium Falcon doesn't make sense at any point of the story.

I'm not totally on board with that. There ARE some things that could look pristine-ish....the naboo fighters perhaps, or the Queen's ship (though I think the fighters could do with a bit of wear on the inside, in the cockpits, or in the maintenance areas of the bigger ship (monarchies often put on a good show, but are more tattered from within than anyone knows).....but not much else should look like it just rolled off the assembly line. The galaxy didn't suddenly spring into existence just before the opening credits of the film with that "new galaxy" smell......things should feel like they've been around a bit, even if they ARE well taken care of.

Oh but it did.

There has been a thousand generations of Jedi enforced peace, no need for machines of war there.

That's why the cities of the PT are so beautiful and artistic.

As war looms on the horizon we see the production lines of both The Republic and The Confederates.

In AOTC the droids should be new the armour should be new the ships and tanks should be new (or at least look new because they have never been used in conflict and are mechanically maintained and belong to a moneyed elite).

It never made sense to me that in AOTC we see scratched and dented droids and Clone armour and yet we have earlier seen the production lines for both and heard that nobody has actually fought yet.

By ROTS money is running out on both sides.

Older ships and new ships rub shoulders with each other with patched up battle scars.

This is what I mean by visual story telling.

Looking at the Y-Wings in ANH you can tell they had a history.

That they were once beautiful and sleek but have been pulled to pieces because the rebellion is underfunded and has no time to beat out the dings in removable cladding.

We get this at a glance without any need for exposition.

The same should be true with the PT.

Coruscant should look shiny and beautiful before the war, draped in flags and propaganda on the eve of war and broken and ruined at the end of the war.

Ashes from which the Empire rises.

If Palpatine is giving his speech from a Senate damaged by war (not a Sith/Jedi juggling contest) it's more understandable why people will just give away their freedoms.

Germany was one of the most liberal open minded and tolerant countries between the wars and we know what happened next and what it looked like.

An entire planet that is one big city will never look entirely pristine. There will be older parts of town, run down areas, or areas where the money just isn't being poured into anymore, simply because there are newer, more popular areas. Making the entire planet all look like it was freshly renovated, every building at the same time.....is as unrealistic as all the gamoreans from ROTJ looking identical.

There ARE places that should look spotless.....Padme's apartments, the opera house for example......but we visit enough other parts of the planet....Dexter's diner, the "seedy" club after the speeder chase.......that we should definitely see some variation to the wear and tear.

There were seedy parts of pre-war Dresden but the effect from a distance was one of astonishing beauty.

Then the Nazi's came and the banners came.

And then the ruins.

This is the sort of story that can be told visually without having talking heads discussing things and numbing us into boredom.

This is the sort of story telling that the OT told so well.

Cloud City is wealthy and is outside the Empire and it looks totally different from the Death Star, any Rebel base or Mos Eisley.

It's status is instantly recognisable, a few lines from Lando complete the picture.

To be honest we don't even need Obi-Wan to tell us Mos Eisley is a what it is as everything we need is on screen.

This sort of storytelling should be extended to the locations and ships of the PT.

Bingowings said:

This sort of storytelling should be extended to the locations and ships of the PT.

I agree, but as it stands now, I don't think it is well done. Everything is slick and featureless. The eye slides off of everything, nothing sticks or catches your attention to tell you anything about the object, be it either that it is shiny and new, or old and used. The CG is too perfect....things need to be re-textured. The Queen's ship for example.....yes, it is something that would be kept in immaculate condition, but after punching its way through a blockade & being blasted to hell, having droids shot off its back, and then spending a couple days parked in the unforgiving Tatooine conditions it STILL looks perfect. When they arrive on Coruscant they should look like hell.