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STAR WARS: EP V "REVISITED EDITION"ADYWAN - 12GB 1080p MP4 VERSION AVAILABLE NOW — Page 1074

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Burdokva said:

The binoculars scene looked somewhat off. Maybe it's that the new CGI AT-ATs do not have the characteristic wobble/swaying of the actuals models, or it looks too pristine? [...]

Which is strange, as the CGI is otherwise seamlessly integrated and I'm having hard time distinguishing it from the physical models.

Maybe consider adding more grain to the black area (the binoculars), and slight camera/hand shake?

I have to say I agree with this. The CGI models elsewhere in the clip look absolutely fantastic and real. But the shot of the walkers through the electrobinoculars seems rather... obviously computer generated.

I think maybe the sequence is too smooth. Maybe if the image through the binoculars wobbled a bit or something...

TV’s Frink said:

chyron just put a big Ric pic in your sig and be done with it.

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I imagine, ironically much of that shot isn't CGI (remember Ady built physical model walkers for this too and the AT-ATs in this shot don't seem to move much because of the distance and we are seeing them head on).

The bits that definitely are (like the strangely galloping/hopping scout walkers) look unnervingly real.

There may be a touch of the shock of the new here as in the original footage the image is more blurred which hides a lot but makes no sense.

Why invent an optical enhancer that substantially degrades the image being enlarged?

It does look like someone has dropped HD footage into a SD sequence for a few nano-moments, I suggested having a faux autofocus which may ease the eye into the image but I think the image itself is more than fine.

However the opening shot of the walkers in the far distance, before we see through the binoculars looks too static (the walkers don't seem to be moving at all).

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Noticed the same thing on the binocular shot, looks too polished for a couple of reasons, being the lack of blur just one of them.

Just a personal perception when I check and re-check the shot, it all looks too ordered to be real:

Symmetry of the AT-AT formation

Coordination when the machines move their legs

Frontal perspective, meaning that the binocular stands precisely in front of the middle AT-AT. This made the walkers look two-legged at some point, because the rear legs were hidden behind the front ones. 

Position of the binoculars, not just by being right ahead of the walkers, but also how it's perfectly parallel to the ground the whole time, while in a more "real" movement the camera should start wrong, rotate a little (this doesn't happen in the original footage neither) until the position is right.

Blur when it zooms out.

However it is true that except for the blur and rotating tweaks that could be done with After Effects, the shot couldn't be tweaked to solve some of the perspective issues (IF ady considers them issues) without re-rendering the whole animation again, . I don't think it's justified at all, for the sequence as it is now is really an improvement opposed to what we had.

 

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Wow, things have really picked up here again, and I see Ady has a new clip up. Ady I thought you weren't going to put the AT-ST's back in, what happened?  Also the binocular shot of the walkers needs more tweaking. It looks CGI. The original looked like it was filmed from a video camera. It had a very specific look to it. It looked very much like it was 30 frames a sec.

 I really liked how the AT-ST's walked like the original one did, and not like the JEDI AT-ST's. Also, Someone mentioned a blast hit that shows up on one of the walkers as Luke flies under one. That definitely needs attention. I also liked the new tactical displays in the snow speeders.  It would also be cool if you could hear some radio chatter from the speeder pilots as the battle progresses. It was done in a new hope during the Yavin battle, why not for ESB?

Other than that, there is not much more I can say at the moment, the clip was really short. Haft to watch it a few times to pic up on other stuff.

Great work as usual Ady!

Venerable member of the “Red Eye” Knights

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AuggieBenDoggie said:


Wow, things have really picked up here again, and I see Ady has a new clip up. Ady I thought you weren't going to put the AT-ST's back in, what happened? 
lies.

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I actually think the establishing shot of the walkers, which Bingo describes as too static, is too revealing. They're pretty clearly Imperial Walkers, so why the binoculars? Might be better if there's fog or mist that clears right around then.

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LOL, that was a good lie.   This makes me wonder about the Red vs. Green Lasers debate we had a long time ago....

Venerable member of the “Red Eye” Knights

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timdiggerm said:

I actually think the establishing shot of the walkers, which Bingo describes as too static, is too revealing. They're pretty clearly Imperial Walkers, so why the binoculars? Might be better if there's fog or mist that clears right around then.

I think the original reveal had the walkers just barely visible in the distance. I'm too lazy to put in the video so can anyone confirm this?

Venerable member of the “Red Eye” Knights

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The new binocular shot was first rendered with CG walkers, then transferred to video tape and then shot using a video camera filming the video being played on a small CRT TV with the tracking/ signal being messed with. The original was also recorded using a camera filming off a crt monitor.

There is something about the original that always made the walkers look like small toys, probably because this shot didn't use stop motion walkers, but mechanical ones instead. You can tell by the fluidity of the motion, which is also why the center one rocks so much, which is something the stop motion versions don't do.

The camera motion was matched to the original, which has no camera wobble and is pretty fluid. And there is a lot of motion blur used on the new version. The Walkers formation was positioned to match the next time we see the walkers coming over the ridge; center one in front, next two in alignment slightly further back and the rear two are also in alignment with each other. 

The opening shot of the walkers seen in the far distance, all of the walkers are moving, whereas the original was just some static shapes. It's Vimeo's compression that has screwed around thanks to the compression artifacts. But you can see on the vimeo video ( just the revisited scene and not the comparison one) if you look closely you can see the AT-ST's moving

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Thank you Adywan for that amazing clip.  The colour and compositions look incredible and, as always, with all the changes it still "feels" like how Star Wars should.

A few points that stood out:

The binocular POV shot looks fantastic.  I really like the visible people in the AT-AT cockpit - it gives a great impression of the rebel commander staring into the face of his enemy (perhaps General Veers in this case) before the attack.

The AT-STs were a genuine surprise, and a big THANK YOU for leaving them in.  The apparent decision to remove them was my biggest objection to all the ESB:R changes.

The first shot of the walkers looks nicer than before, but now shows them quite a bit more defined as opposed to specks on the horizon.  This to me slightly diminishes the impact of the subsequent binocular view, which previously served as a reveal.  Were they brought closer for continuity reasons?

As others have pointed out, the blast marks on the second AT-AT can still be seen appearing out of nowhere at 1:33

The saturated red lights that people have complained about are IMO a good thing.  Part of the visual theme of Star Wars is that most shots have a prominent coloured light somewhere, whether on a droid, a wall panel or a laser blast, etc, which gives a sense of the pervasiveness of technology everywhere in this universe.

They told me they’d fixed it!

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On Vimeo, when you click the download button, you can actually download the original MKV file - 1080p for the comparison video.

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Adywan said:

The new binocular shot was first rendered with CG walkers, then transferred to video tape and then shot using a video camera filming the video being played on a small CRT TV with the tracking/ signal being messed with. The original was also recorded using a camera filming off a crt monitor.

That makes sense. Just curious, was the frame rate of your CGI Walkers rendered ( on the PC ) at 24fps or 30fps. If it was rendered at 24 then that could probably be why the shot doesn't have that live video kind of look to it.

Venerable member of the “Red Eye” Knights

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adywan said:

The new binocular shot was first rendered with CG walkers, then transferred to video tape and then shot using a video camera filming the video being played on a small CRT TV with the tracking/ signal being messed with. The original was also recorded using a camera filming off a crt monitor.

There is something about the original that always made the walkers look like small toys, probably because this shot didn't use stop motion walkers, but mechanical ones instead. You can tell by the fluidity of the motion, which is also why the center one rocks so much, which is something the stop motion versions don't do.

The camera motion was matched to the original, which has no camera wobble and is pretty fluid. And there is a lot of motion blur used on the new version. The Walkers formation was positioned to match the next time we see the walkers coming over the ridge; center one in front, next two in alignment slightly further back and the rear two are also in alignment with each other. 

The opening shot of the walkers seen in the far distance, all of the walkers are moving, whereas the original was just some static shapes. It's Vimeo's compression that has screwed around thanks to the compression artifacts. But you can see on the vimeo video ( just the revisited scene and not the comparison one) if you look closely you can see the AT-ST's moving

That's awesome how you kept the binocular shot old school. :)

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Harmy said:

On Vimeo, when you click the download button, you can actually download the original MKV file - 1080p for the comparison video.

The MKV file is way better than the MP4. Alot more detail!

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Mithrandir said:

Just a personal perception when I check and re-check the shot, it all looks too ordered to be real:

Symmetry of the AT-AT formation

Coordination when the machines move their legs

Frontal perspective, meaning that the binocular stands precisely in front of the middle AT-AT. This made the walkers look two-legged at some point, because the rear legs were hidden behind the front ones. 

Position of the binoculars, not just by being right ahead of the walkers, but also how it's perfectly parallel to the ground the whole time, while in a more "real" movement the camera should start wrong, rotate a little until the position is right.

Yeah the symmetry of it, I think, is the biggest issue. It just looks too perfectly framed. A general rule in film/photography is to never put something dead center (or what looks like dead center) in your framing, unless you are trying for that specific look.......though I know that seeing the AT-AT pilots somewhat requires a dead center view.....it might help if the walkers behind the lead walker were at different points of advancement.....one a little ways behind the other, just to unbalance the shot a little.....and not equally distant from their respective sides of the frame.

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I've played about with the binocular shot. Here is the revised version. Make sure you watch the 720p version though because youtubes compression on the SD version is pretty crappy

http://youtu.be/HNfl0K3iRmA

 

EDIT: It still looks pretty crappy in HD. Here is a download link for the 720p mkv of this shot:

https://hotfile.com/dl/197542645/33e9732/binocs_revised.mkv.html

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I Thought I would chip in on a possible improvement idea.

On the AT-AT foot stomp add some particles when it hit's the ground to emphasize the weight of these walkers on the ice. and when the foot lifts some particles trailing off to emulate drag.

No biggie but could improve the shot perhaps

Other than that I think the shot works well and like the way the AT-AT sways within the shot. Scan lines work well too with interference. I don't think it's an issue being center of the shot or slightly off center the POV is fine.

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Bingowings said:

One shot that still sticks out for me is this one:

which appears largely unchanged in the sequence as it stands.

If you could possibly add a hint of the interior (you wouldn't see much) it would create a greater impression of scale.

Something like :

 

to me this also was a little off, that absolute darkness, no light or heads to be seen - I think it would be a small continuity flaw if all AT-AT "cockpits" were in red light (because in the scene with Veers it looked normal), but maybe just show some interaction, not total blackness ;-)

compairson:

http://www.csmonitor.com/var/ezflow_site/storage/images/media/images/0419-star-wars-at-at-walker/9990823-1-eng-US/0419-star-wars-at-at-walker_full_600.jpg

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adywan said:

I've played about with the binocular shot. Here is the revised version. Make sure you watch the 720p version though because youtubes compression on the SD version is pretty crappy

http://youtu.be/HNfl0K3iRmA

 

EDIT: It still looks pretty crappy in HD. Here is a download link for the 720p mkv of this shot:

https://hotfile.com/dl/197542645/33e9732/binocs_revised.mkv.html

I dont know what you did because I cant compare the two shots right now, but the CG feeling is mostly gone now. (It was a difficult shot because it is too ortogonal, with hardly any perspective due to the distance, and with mechanic repetitive movements)

 

So great job.

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adywan said:

I've played about with the binocular shot. Here is the revised version. Make sure you watch the 720p version though because youtubes compression on the SD version is pretty crappy

http://youtu.be/HNfl0K3iRmA

 

EDIT: It still looks pretty crappy in HD. Here is a download link for the 720p mkv of this shot:

https://hotfile.com/dl/197542645/33e9732/binocs_revised.mkv.html

That's perfect, it just needed that extra little bit of wobble to make it feel like the binoculars were handheld; the previous version was a little too smooth.

Hoth battle clip is amazing btw, I got chills when I saw the AT-STs, incredible stuff!

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OK its been a while since I was on here, & I have to say I love the new additions to the Hoth fight, it feels so much more like a battle zone now, and not just a rushed action sequence, but sorry Ady I have to ask this, with the image looking so much more crisp than before, with the colours being so much more defined than I had thought possible, & in the interest in continuity would you now consider changing the empires lasers to green?

 

& no before you ask I am not making a ‘snowflake on Chewies foot” type comment, I am being genuine in my inquiry, and have no wish to start a shouting match as it were 

Bingowings said: Do you want to see the project finished as a playable film or a flick book?

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I know it's been said before but the binocular shot is breathtaking. Any chance you could upload the whole thing on hotfile so we can fully appreciate the quality of your work?

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Ronster said:

On the AT-AT foot stomp add some particles when it hit's the ground to emphasize the weight of these walkers on the ice. and when the foot lifts some particles trailing off to emulate drag.

 I always felt this is one of the more modelly looking shots. An enhancement to the snow on impact would improve the shot immensely.

All the existing changes are simply awesome! I'm blown away by the attention to detail.