The Prequel Radical Redux Ideas Thread — Page 253

Michaeldor said:

When Lucas whas writing Ep.III he didn't remember that there're good dictatorships and bad.

PS:

and since when are there "good" dictatorships?

last time I checked, they all are somewhat inhumane ...

Tito while not perfect is often held up as a better example of a dictator.

Certainly better than what replaced him.

Almost all dictatorships have pluses as well as negatives but you are right usually the negatives win in the end.

well, that is a discussion I better leave alone, maybe those whole politics grew over Lucas head when he wrote the script, maybe he just lost direction ...

What irritates me more is the apparent moral dilemma, caused by the Jedi (and maybe their Codex)

They should be protectors against oppression and be keepers of peace, one could argue only inside the Republic's borders, but the Force knows now boundaries!

Why is it, that they leave slaves imprisoned (for life), seperate families, forbid(?) love, even leave friends to die ... ?

That doesn't make sense to me, those are not the "noble" Jedi Knights I would love to see!

I didn't want to sound too melodramatic, but it kind of culminates in Anakin's character - and how we as an audience see his "rise" and fall (and redemption):

Way back in the 80ties, when I was a kid, some years too young for "Return of the Jedi" (but who cared then, the other two movies had a low age rating), my buddies and me had read about this film: space ships and stuff, what could be more fun?

I had no idea of what, who, why, when, back then - just some weird aliens, a bunch of heroes, battles and Ewoks (hey, kids love teddy bears!) - and instant "love" for lightsaber fights ;-)

so I knew Vader was Luke's father before seeing "Empire", years later on VHS, but it somewhat stuck as important "turning point", similar to the "trial in the cave" ...

Fast forward about 20 years (of yearning for new movies) - Anakin's story unfolds ... and it is a creepy tale: some worship him (offscreen?), others fear(?) him, his spouse takes a mass murder of sandpeople light as a talk about weather, his "friend" and "brother" doesn't even care to deal the deathblow (maybe killing all those younglings fried Ben's heart) - then we see Vader (do we cheer or hiss here?)

Strange enough, I could accept Vader's redemption back then, when he disobeyed the Emperor and saved his son - but now it is not so easy, thinking about all that bad stuff he did, and without remorse ...

This is what I sort of dread about the ST.

Whedon has a character (a bit too wishy washy for my taste) in Angel who has done terrible things and is forced to contemplate an eternity of atonement.

Vader has contributed to worse and he gets accepted into Jedi heaven for throwing an old man down a well.

As much as the character sort of needs to give more back I really can't stand the prospect of Hayden guiding Luke and Leia's grand kids.

Obi-Wan's "point of view" seems Lucas "escape pod" - he told Luke "the good man, that was Anakin, has died" - so this brings two opportunities:

a) Hayden as a force-ghost, because that's what Obi-Wan said :-(

b) all bad things Vader did, are not Anakins "fault", because he was "not there" (therefore old Anakin must stay - and this man died!)

I may not be a purist, really dig the things Adywan does, but the SE and the Prequels did horrific stuff, not logical ...

but even when we accept that Anakin splitted into his Vader persona, his former self needed to be more likeable, that teenage psycho is just plain wrong!

same with "Han shot first" - I never had the impression, that Solo was "coldblooded", if one was, then it was Greedo, that green Meanie ;-)

I suggested that Vader starts out as a fugue persona (a manifestation of his own grief, rage, thwarted ambition and sense of betrayal) before Anakin makes the conscious decision to turn to the darkside.

That way the genuinely good man can sink in the quicksand of what his hidden subconscious insanity has created.

When he sees his son willing to throw away his life rather than turn to evil it could allow the good man to rise again, that way he isn't fully responsible for the evil acts the Vader persona does.

It also helps keep the big secret of ESB if we see Vader before Anakin falls.

Since we first saw "young Ani", I thought that we should see an older version from the start - he could be younger than Luke or even some years his senior - but at least about Obi-Wan's age (this would fuel the rivalry between "brothers" later ...)

Not sure if he should already be in the Order, just "overlooked", and be "found" by Obi-Wan, who not ready to be Master, takes up training him as his student - Anakin could also be (as some have suggested) a spice trader, smuggler type like Han, which would reflect some interactions with the scoundrel ;-)

The "leitmotif" should be: the road to hell is paved with best intentions!

So we have these different characters, from all ranging cultures and social positions, the hub is Plaplatine, who knows of their secrets and flaws ...

For the "big secret" - one could leave the "Vader transformation" offscreen - that isn't so bad ... on the other hand, we could lay some red herings, like turning Darth Maul into General Grievous (I try to make some mockups how "Darth Grievous" could look onscreen)

The other thing I wish to change is how Sidious is introduced: to keep a little suprise or make a greater impact in Episode3, Palpatine could be just the "nice old man" until he drops his mask in the final act.

Other road could go like this: we know who Sidious is, no smokes and mirrors, only the characters stab in the dark about this "mystery of the Sith" - so we cringe at every "wrong" decision that they make, only to see the inevitable end ...

brimforge said:

For the "big secret" - one could leave the "Vader transformation" offscreen - that isn't so bad ... on the other hand, we could lay some red herings, like turning Darth Maul into General Grievous (I try to make some mockups how "Darth Grievous" could look onscreen)

An offscreen "transformation" would be the best way to handle it and preserve secret I agree.... you could keep things relatively simple and not have too many decoys thrown into the situation.

I could see a scenario where Anakin and a group of other Jedi are sent off on a mission together.  Later, Obi-wan is informed that "one of" his apprentices has turned to the dark side... Obi-wan responds to this in to something along the lines of "Anakin, is he ok?"  only for the informer to simply say "he has fallen" and he hands Anakin's lightsaber over to Obi-Wan, making the audience think he is dead.

We could then have a faceoff with a masked, red sabered Vader (not yet mechanical).... he would be defeated in a similar fashion and reconstructed in a similar fashion that we see in the end of the RotS... no names of Anakin being used, but some emotional lines could still be spouted between the two, but the audience views this battle as Obi-wan going after the fallen jedi who killed his best friend and "brother"

dabest13 said:

I could see a scenario where Anakin and a group of other Jedi are sent off on a mission together.  Later, Obi-wan is informed that "one of" his apprentices has turned to the dark side... Obi-wan responds to this in to something along the lines of "Anakin, is he ok?"  only for the informer to simply say "he has fallen" and he hands Anakin's lightsaber over to Obi-Wan, making the audience think he is dead.

I had a "radical" thought: not sure if it came on here before, but it would just fit like a glove ... and with your idea/s to fuel it ;-)

We meet a young Jedi Knight, Obi-Wan, and his not so much younger to-be Apprentice Anakin in Episode 1, story goes from blockade/invasion to rescue/diplomatic mission ,where the political conflicts are layed down for the rest of the Saga - must think about Dooku and Maul/Grievous, where to put them (and when Qui-Gon should die).

Next Episode 2, when Anakin had some years, about 10, under Ben's training, their friendship is tested by the "Clone Wars", which started shortly before movie starts (details may follow), Palpatine has put ideas into Ani's brain, the love to Padme could be much more focus, on why Jedi outcast Skywalker - maybe build some conspiracy within the senate - E2 ends with "the duel", Anakin's fall - Victory is on the far horizon.

Conclusion in "Revenge of the Sith": the "Clone Wars" are nearly over, many deaths are to be mourned, then "Vader" a dark assassin hunts and kills Jedi and senators alike, no one knows his identity and Palpatine, who has risen to supreme ruler of the Republic declares the Jedi as enemies (maybe with proof of Dooku's and/or Anakin's foul play in the "Clone Wars") - Rest as we know it ...

Don't know if birth of the Twins should be onscreen, it brings some difficulties - same as showing Vader's "transformation".

Why would you want to redub such a sexy demigod as Anakin? ;)

dowremi said:

Hello everybody. This is my first post on this forum and I really enjoyed reading through this thread. Lots of great ideas.I love love love Star Wars.  But  last night I was episode two  for first time in over a year and I literally felt pieces of my soul dying everytime Anakin (Hayden) spoke to Padme.

I say redub Anakin's voice to give him more charecter and maybe even use some CG to change his facial expressions. It shouldnt be to hard because most of the time he's standing still and just moving his lips.

The same should be done with Padme.

I know this probably can't happen but I like the idea.

You should check out the rough cut of an ep2 edit called Shroud of the Dark Side. Anakin has been redubbed to really good effect.

Redubbing is a good idea, at least some characters can be pushed or saved, with right dialog we could get more out of the poor films Lucas made ...

Not very serious, but as examples on how a "proto-Vader" could sound, say if Anakin just had a mask or breathing apparatus (on Mustafa):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArmRCTKxTeo

or with more temper ... (bad language!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xh3Wveg4DMk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_n8FRILoYE

hm, if we leave "the duel" at Mustafa onscreen, I would like to add breathing masks to both Obi-Wan and Anakin, to make it look like in the concept art of McQuarrie ;-)

http://spinoff.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/star-wars-mcquarrie4.jpg

Anakin should speak with an 'English' accent like Sebastian Shaw.

If he sounded remotely like Tom Hardy's stupid Bane voice I would have to switch off as it cracks me up every time.

@ Bingowings

For Anakin yes, but as Vader I meant, that he shouldn't already have "J.E.J." voice - maybe something inbetween

hehe, I joked during "The Dark Knight Rises" that Bane will crush Batman with the Force ;-)

@ MTHaslett

well, if you read my comments, THAT is what I meant: make Obi-Wan main character ;-)

just read above the ideas I threw into the ring ...

As for "recutting" - maybe an approach like "Collaborative Fanproject ROTJ" would be possible, to fill the gaps left with fanfilms and other stuff, that matches the story/timeline

MTHaslett said:

But how does Vader betray and Murder Skywalker? With the footage that exists? Who in the cast could become Skywalker?

If Darth Maul was Vader, and Skywalker was Qui Gon? ...No.

 

It's always tricky, with what Lucas gave us - if we had more material, we could cut in every direction we liked ;-)

 

Does anyone remember the rumors that Catherine Zeta-Jones was to play a Sith Witch ?

or DiCaprio was to be cast as Anakin ...

 

Maybe what is "good" for the next trilogy could also be applied to our edits of the prequels:

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/03/04/8-things-star-wars-episode-vii-can-learn-from-episodes-i-iii?zeta_id=20036930&utm_source=Monday%20newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=3.5+Dynamic+Newsletter_NO+FNAME_13151_697363_697401&utm_content=20036930

 

Anyone know a website, where ALL of McQuarrie's concept arts or story board drawings are stored - or does anyone got ALL of them per chance?

because I got many, but from time to time I find "new" ones like this:

http://doubleonothing.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/vader-mcquarrie1.jpg

MTHaslett said:

But how does Vader betray and Murder Skywalker? With the footage that exists? Who in the cast could become Skywalker?

If Darth Maul was Vader, and Skywalker was Qui Gon? ...No.

 

The only things that I think would work with the footage available (and I'm not saying I like any of these ideas) are either Anakin is Vader and Dooku is Anakin, Palpatine is Vader and Anakin is Anakin and we assume his actions lead to Obi Wan killing Anakin and 'Vader' (Palpatine) being responsible, or Obi Wan is Vader and he kills Anakin by removing the part where he is saved.  Out of the three the last seems most manageable, but then you have Obi Wan and Vader's fight in E4 not making much sense at all.

Obviously in such a scenario Qui-Gon would be Skywalker.

Bingowings said:

Obviously in such a scenario Qui-Gon would be Skywalker.

That could be easy enough to show for a death scene flashback of some kind but there isn't enough footage of Darth Maul to have it seem he was ever friends with Qui Gon before killing him, you could never portray a betrayal.  Unless you are suggesting Palpatine take the role of Vader and Maul is simply the weapon he used, but again I don't think there is enough footage to suggest this between those characters.

Trim all reverences to Obi-Wan being Liam's student and Qui-Gon's surname and he could be Luke's dad (if you drop ROTJ the only film that refers to him as Anakin Skywalker).

You could even edit in Obi-wan calling him Qui-Gon Skywalker.

Drop ESB and you don't even have to do that.

Yoda and Mace could continue to moan about him, Obi-Wan could advise he would be on the council if he towed the line more.

Palpatine could refer to Darth Vader instead of Maul.

It's sort of makes sense really.