thejediknighthusezni said:
AntcuFaalb said:
CP3S said:
I generally consider all undergraduate degrees useless. They are easy to obtain and the market is over saturated with them. Undergraduate education is the new high school diploma, and who hangs their high school diploma on the wall?
I know it's only anecdotal, but I make a six-figure salary + benefits with my useless CS undergraduate degree and I'm only 2.5 years out of university. This is not uncommon amongst computer programmers, IIRC.
Undergraduate degrees are only useless if you choose the wrong major*. I don't think everyone should choose to pursue a STEM degree, of course, but we should be preparing prospective undergrads for the reality of the job market that they'll encounter after graduation rather than filling their heads with the standard "follow your dreams" nonsense.
* None of this applies if one plans to pursue higher degree(s) and/or plans to go into academia.
People in Germany begin receiving vocational training in "High School".
I wrote about eliminating all public education before the 11th birthday and replacing it with mandatory testing every six months and tax refunds going to the parent who stays home.
These better educated, socialized, and supervised kids would enthusiastically enter the next stage from 11 to 16. Six bad weather months would be spent exclusively on general and practical subjects such as Practical Math, English Comprehension and Composition and Essential Management of Sexuality. The good weather six months would be spent in carefully supervised member-managed clubs for personal interest such as Athletics, Popular Musical Instruments (keyboards, guitars, drums), Science, Advanced Mathematics, IT and Literature.
The fiction of adulthood at 18 would end. Kids from 16+ to 21 could take-on limited adult responsibilities such as driving and Vocation Education Loans with approval and some contribution from a parent or guardian. Parents would remain responsible for the housing and feeding of these kids to 21. A 20 year old could not be housed away any more than a 17 year old. All vocational and advanced education would be paid for out-of-pocket or with loans until the student graduates AND finds paid work in a field related to his/her degree and only then could the graduate receive any scholarships or grants (this would encourage kids and parents to be very careful and not waste time and money.) Loans would only go to kids of proven aptitude in the chosen field after careful testing and would continue only if the kids are advancing in those subjects. Elementary schools could be converted to community college/votech centers and other facilities could be built within an easy commute. Instructors could travel to different centers. Only kids from very rural areas or in unusual advanced courses would be boarded away. Kids with serious legal/moral troubles would have to go into sex-segregated classes under even greater supervision. The student/instructor relationship would be as middle-school is supposed to be now.
Before 1950, kids under 21 were sent off to boarding type educational institutions primarily because of transportation limitations and not because it is the best way to prepare these little snips for real life.
I think that one important aspect of education that has mostly disappeared is the apprenticeship aspect. Most kids don't learn by sitting in a classroom copying information that they are told will be useful and being tested on regurgitation. Kids roleplay. They see adults that they admire on TV, in movies or video games, or in real life, and they model their lives to some extent on this person, or the profession that they are employed in. If they are only ever with kids their own age, then there can be unpredictable shifts in behavior as everyone in the group models their behavior off of that same group, and not off of good role models. With an apprenticeship, there is a much greater opportunity to learn many more aspects of the job than just the technical requirements. You can make connections with people in the industry, learn the personal habits of the person you apprentice under, and get a much better sense of what is to be required of you.
I wanted to be an architect at one point, but then I actually worked for one. I did 3D modelling work for presentations, something that didn't require much architectural knowledge, but I got a good idea of what that job entailed, as well as contributing to society and earning some money. This saved the college system and myself four years, as I realized that I didn't want to be an architect after all.