Personally I think it's sad that Star Trek has become Star Revenge.
Say what you like about the first picture but at least it was about exploration and was cinematic.
Since then all the films including JJ's have been rather cartoonish revenge stories which could have been made for television with a big backer.
Anyways what about them crazy Star Wars eh?
Bingowings said:
Anyways what about them crazy Star Wars eh?
If you want to talk about Star Wars, go find a Star Wars forum.
http://geektyrant.com/news/2013/1/28/jj-abrams-discusses-star-wars-episode-vii.html
I'd love if a character in SW VII finds The Journal of the Whills. Full circle.
“Grow up. These are my Disney's movies, not yours.”
The whole Whill subplot was dropped from revenge of the sith. They taught Qui gon how to join with the force and he teached yoda who then teached kenobi.
They never really developed it too much but i was under the impression they were spirit beings and not Midi-Clorians.
Probably a good idea it was dropped though just like young Han Solo and the Emperor being Anakin's father.
“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.
But the Emperor is Anakin's father, from a certain point of view. ;)
My Whills comment was mostly tongue in cheek. I'd have to bust out my 1998 Behind the Magic CD-ROM to remember more about it, other than it was an early title for the drafts.
“Grow up. These are my Disney's movies, not yours.”
Abrams is just awful.
It doesn't matter whether its Lost or anything else he touches.
As a lifelong Star Trek fan, well, I thought his film was utter crap.
Great direction? There wasn't even one clean shot of the Enterprise.
Using a time-traveling Romulan bent on revenge so that they could have the excuse of playing in an alternate timeline was pathetic.
What Star Trek fans wanted was a real series of prequel fims showing us how the original crew met and came together since this was never done with the original series.
But I can't entirely blame Abrams. He told Paramount he knew nothing about Star Trek and they hired him anyway.
He wrote Armageddon. Yep. And don't forget that he wrote that abysmal Superman script (Flyby) wherein he had Superman dying from kryptonite while somehow the planet Krypton never explodes.
It would be laughable if it weren't so sad.
If Lucas stuck the knife in Star Wars, Abrams will be turning the blade that ensures its death.
“Anakin had those qualities so rarely seen, exuding an unmistakable confidence and yet still able to touch one’s heart in simply knowing how he was so flawed… wounded.”
Bingowings said:
Personally I think it's sad that Star Trek has become Star Revenge.
Say what you like about the first picture but at least it was about exploration and was cinematic.
Since then all the films including JJ's have been rather cartoonish revenge stories which could have been made for television with a big backer.
All the films? Just going through my head and trying to think of all the movies and how many of them have revenge themes in them. Been a while since I've seen any of them though.
Wrath of Khan - Yes
Search for Spock - No
The Voyage Home - No
The Final Frontier - No
The Undiscovered Country - Yes
Generations - No
First Contact - Yes
Insurrection - Yes
Nemesis - Yes
J. J. Trek 2009 - Yes
Unless I am forgetting certain aspects of some of the films, or making up others, that is over half, even if you throw The Motion Picture in for good measure. Bingo's all is hyperbole, but only a little.
He wrote Armageddon along with four other guys. You can't blame the whole movie on him.
How many times are we going to rehash bash Trek '09 in this thread? Let's see how the sequel turns out before we start scraping the Star Trek Lives sticker off the car bumper, shall we? ;)
Where were you in '77?
CP3S said:
Bingowings said:
Personally I think it's sad that Star Trek has become Star Revenge.
Say what you like about the first picture but at least it was about exploration and was cinematic.
Since then all the films including JJ's have been rather cartoonish revenge stories which could have been made for television with a big backer.
All the films? Just going through my head and trying to think of all the movies and how many of them have revenge themes in them. Been a while since I've seen any of them though.
Wrath of Khan - Yes
Search for Spock - No
The Voyage Home - No
The Final Frontier - No
The Undiscovered Country - Yes
Generations - No
First Contact - Yes
Insurrection - Yes
Nemesis - Yes
J. J. Trek 2009 - Yes
Unless I am forgetting certain aspects of some of the films, or making up others, that is over half, even if you throw The Motion Picture in for good measure. Bingo's all is hyperbole, but only a little.
“Anakin had those qualities so rarely seen, exuding an unmistakable confidence and yet still able to touch one’s heart in simply knowing how he was so flawed… wounded.”
Uh oh, I sense a new theme among bitter Star Wars fans: J. J. Abrams raped my future.
Don't give them any new ideas!
Where were you in '77?
SilverWook said:
How many times are we going to rehash bash Trek '09 in this thread? Let's see how the sequel turns out before we start scraping the Star Trek Lives sticker off the car bumper, shall we? ;)
“Anakin had those qualities so rarely seen, exuding an unmistakable confidence and yet still able to touch one’s heart in simply knowing how he was so flawed… wounded.”
Then don't go see it.
Where were you in '77?
I wasn't planning on it.
“Anakin had those qualities so rarely seen, exuding an unmistakable confidence and yet still able to touch one’s heart in simply knowing how he was so flawed… wounded.”
Funny Thing seeing as how Orci says he is a fan of the novels star trek final frontier and best destiny that show more of a true version of a prequel of sorts.
They changed the story from the true origins to be marketable, they did the job paramount wanted. The trekkies let star trek enterprise get cancelled anyway in 2004, and let nemesis bomb.
Also how much similar the JJ version is to the Top Gun trek that Harve Bennett tried to get made, i mean the idea of doing younger versions of the original series cast was proposed before and rejected.
Trekkers and Trekkies drew a line in the sand and wanted Rick Berman gone, and into that vacuum steps Abrams.
I mean its like when Meyer, Bennett and Nimoy took Trek away from Roddenberry and the day will come when someone replaces JJ too.
“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.
“I feel like the world of Star Wars has gotten to be so vast, not just in terms of the various mediums that Star Wars occupies, but because of the visual possibilities that technology has allowed and Industrial Light & Magic is so remarkably capable at creating. My favorite thing about Star Wars is the ability to tell an incredibly personal, intimate, and emotional story against a backdrop of conflict and battle that’s planetary and massive. What I would love to see is a story about characters that I am desperately entertained by and definitely care about, and keep that story as focused as possible and make more of that than the pyrotechnics of it all which to me is what makes Star Wars so brilliant. If it’s a TV show, that’s terrific. If it’s animated I’m all for it. If it’s a radio show or a video game or an online experience — whatever it is I would love to discover in this vast universe some new characters that make me feel the way that Luke, Leia, and Han Solo did.”
- JJ Abrams (2008)
I just finished watching Super 8. I liked it. You mouth-frothers are crazy.
May the Great Bird of the Galaxy poop on all ye nay-sayers who gotta bash ..... and bash ...... and bash.
Like it or not, DeForest Kelly and James Doohan have left us. Trying to do more "old" Trek becomes more and more difficult due to that and the aging stars still here.
Paramount got what they wanted. It is not the best in the world but the 2009 film was no where near the worst thing Trek every made. J.J. Abrams may not be everyone's first choice but it's not like he killed Star Trek and is now moving in to kill off Star Wars. He's got a lot of hard core Star Wars fans that might even send him death threats just because ....... but he is a knowledgeable Director who can bring something special to a brand that has been watered down terribly by it's own creator.
With that said, I ask, please give it a rest. If ya gotta froth off at the mouth over it, go to the Star Trek forums and do it. Write JJ a post card, send Paramount a wet bag of poo if ya got to but let's stay on topic with this.
:)
CP3S said:
All the films? Just going through my head and trying to think of all the movies and how many of them have revenge themes in them. Been a while since I've seen any of them though.
Yeah, I was exaggerating a little with more than half but there are vengeance subroutines programmed into most of the films without it as a central theme.
Both the Duras sisters and Dr Soran are grinding axes while bringing their main goals to fruition for example.
I just wish they would Trek a bit more, still them crazy Star Wars... full of wars in the stars.
Man, there's some miserable, unhappy fuckers on here these days!!
chill! Only two more years till the next Star Wars film.
Embrace the love!!
With JJ Abrams as the director, unless the studio comes up with some kind of totally terrible basic story premise, I'm confident Ep 7 will at least be good.
I'm cautiously optimistic they might be "Really good."
I hope they're great.
Darth Hade said:
What Star Trek fans wanted was a real series of prequel fims showing us how the original crew met and came together since this was never done with the original series.
Hollywood is obsessed with "origin" stories and prequels, it seems.
Let's be honest, here--as compelling as the notion of the SW prequels may have been, a good chunk of the drama and suspense was sucked out of them because we already knew a whole of what had to happen, and what was going to happen.
Prequels and origin stories invite all sorts of distracting winks, nods, and references to future events.
It's "Superboy Syndrome"--we know that in any given Superboy story, he'll never die or have some major life change occur, because he has to grow up to become Superman.
And, STAR TREK certainly didn't need an "origin". The Enterprise was built. Various Captains and officers simply came and went--by way of promotions, transfers, and deaths--until the cast we know came together. Like...in a real Navy!
A big adventure that brings Kirk and company together (despite differing ages and career paths) all at the same time, and all during the Enterprise's maiden voyage smacks of bad fanfic, more than anything else.
It's much the same with SW--the prequels made the Galaxy much, much smaller, and jammed in one ridiculous contrivance after another (Anakin building Threepio, etc.).
All that said, I don't think it would be a good thing for future SW films to go back and make pre-prequels!
I thought it was a missed opportunity not to do a movie or series about the Enterprise under Captain Pike. There was a short lived comic (thanks to fickle Paramount licensing) that was pretty darn good.
Star Wars was locked into having "origin" stories the minute "Episode IV" was added to the crawl.
Where were you in '77?
Darth Hade said:
What Star Trek fans wanted was a real series of prequel fims showing us how the original crew met and came together since this was never done with the original series.
As a life long Star Trek fan, that is TOTALLY not what I wanted.
I stand by my opinion that there's never, ever, ever, been an origin story prequal worth the film it's on.