GOUT Bugs (and DUDSbtEoEE) — Page 4

Author: g-force
Time: 9-Oct-2012 2:29 PM
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AntcuFaalb said:

Simple frame-blending can be undone...

Yes, but it has to be pretty simple. Most cases of frame blending involve decimation as well (i.e. NTSC to PAL) where you have only 5 frames for every 6 original frames. The blending effects can be improved, but you can never get the original 6 frames back. The analogy in audio is that you apply a low-pass filter and downsample. You can mitigate some of the low-pass filter, but you can never get the information above half of the new sampling rate back.

Not entirely relavent, but just pointing out that you are USUALLY screwed. ;)

-G

Author: AntcuFaalb
Time: 9-Oct-2012 3:40 PM
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You_Too said:

@msycamore: You're right about the glue. I just checked Puggo's version of ESB and it's there.

This makes me wonder if the glue marks in SW is in the technicolor prints as well.

The glue is ALL OVER the JSC. It's at the end of almost every shot (not scene!) change.

A picture is worth a thousand words. Post 102 is worth more.

I’m late to the party, but I think this is the best song. Enjoy!

—Teams Jetrell Fo 1, Jetrell Fo 2, and Jetrell Fo 3

Author: AntcuFaalb
Time: 9-Oct-2012 3:41 PM
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g-force said:

AntcuFaalb said:

Simple frame-blending can be undone...

Yes, but it has to be pretty simple. Most cases of frame blending involve decimation as well (i.e. NTSC to PAL) where you have only 5 frames for every 6 original frames. The blending effects can be improved, but you can never get the original 6 frames back. The analogy in audio is that you apply a low-pass filter and downsample. You can mitigate some of the low-pass filter, but you can never get the information above half of the new sampling rate back.

Not entirely relavent, but just pointing out that you are USUALLY screwed. ;)

-G

Unfortunately, you're right :-(

A picture is worth a thousand words. Post 102 is worth more.

I’m late to the party, but I think this is the best song. Enjoy!

—Teams Jetrell Fo 1, Jetrell Fo 2, and Jetrell Fo 3

Author: Asaki
Time: 9-Oct-2012 4:51 PM
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AntcuFaalb said:

You_Too said:

@msycamore: You're right about the glue. I just checked Puggo's version of ESB and it's there.

This makes me wonder if the glue marks in SW is in the technicolor prints as well.

The glue is ALL OVER the JSC. It's at the end of almost every shot (not scene!) change.

Yeah, it's about as bad as Ernest Saves Camp @_@

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Author: AntcuFaalb
Time: 17-Oct-2012 6:06 PM
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Excluding the aforementioned scene with screwy AR, cropping NTSC GOUT gives me 712x274.

Considering how much GOUT's already been cropped, is 712:274 (~2.59) the correct AR?

A picture is worth a thousand words. Post 102 is worth more.

I’m late to the party, but I think this is the best song. Enjoy!

—Teams Jetrell Fo 1, Jetrell Fo 2, and Jetrell Fo 3

Author: TServo2049
Time: 17-Oct-2012 7:09 PM (Edited)
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Is this at NTSC pixel ratio? Remember, at 1:1 pixel ratio, NTSC is 720x480, an aspect ratio of 1.5:1 instead of 1.33:1.

NTSC has a pixel ratio of 8:9, so to calculate the correct ratio, you have to correct the resolution from 720x480 to 720x540 before cropping. It doesn't seem like you did that.

At the correct resolution, I'm seeing an AR of about 2.30:1-2.32:1. And if you weren't aware already, there's some sort of anamorphic distortion issue where the image gets thinner on the ends.

And the GOUT isn't actually that heavily cropped. The earlier transfers actually may have showed a little too much on the top and bottom (in the JSC, you can sometimes see the bright garbage around the frame during optical composite shots). And due to two different camera apertures being used during filming, framing the transfer to fit inside the smaller aperture will inevitably cause more picture to be lost in the scenes with the larger one, since those shots use more of the film frame.

Author: AntcuFaalb
Time: 18-Oct-2012 1:54 AM
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Thanks for the information, TServo2049!

A picture is worth a thousand words. Post 102 is worth more.

I’m late to the party, but I think this is the best song. Enjoy!

—Teams Jetrell Fo 1, Jetrell Fo 2, and Jetrell Fo 3

Author: AntcuFaalb
Time: 18-Oct-2012 1:56 AM
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Does anyone else notice haloing in GOUT? I see it around the crawl text and especially around the larger of the two moons in the opening shot.

A picture is worth a thousand words. Post 102 is worth more.

I’m late to the party, but I think this is the best song. Enjoy!

—Teams Jetrell Fo 1, Jetrell Fo 2, and Jetrell Fo 3

Author: You_Too
Time: 18-Oct-2012 9:24 AM
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Here's those shots with exposure set to +5 in photoshop:

Looks like you're right. I think the haloing is visible especially on the left side of the large moon.

Author: AntcuFaalb
Time: 18-Oct-2012 10:24 AM
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Thanks for confirming that, You_Too. Is the haloing present in TESB and ROTJ as well?

A picture is worth a thousand words. Post 102 is worth more.

I’m late to the party, but I think this is the best song. Enjoy!

—Teams Jetrell Fo 1, Jetrell Fo 2, and Jetrell Fo 3

Author: You_Too
Time: 18-Oct-2012 4:47 PM
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Here it seems rather than haloing that the color channels are misaligned or something. And of course the infamous blue stars in ROTJ.

Author: AntcuFaalb
Time: 18-Oct-2012 5:08 PM
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Thanks, You_Too!

(I like the blue stars...)

A picture is worth a thousand words. Post 102 is worth more.

I’m late to the party, but I think this is the best song. Enjoy!

—Teams Jetrell Fo 1, Jetrell Fo 2, and Jetrell Fo 3

Author: AntcuFaalb
Time: 18-Oct-2012 5:29 PM
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TServo2049: Is the PAL AR off then? Considering the PAR, I'm getting 768x326.

A picture is worth a thousand words. Post 102 is worth more.

I’m late to the party, but I think this is the best song. Enjoy!

—Teams Jetrell Fo 1, Jetrell Fo 2, and Jetrell Fo 3

Author: TServo2049
Time: 18-Oct-2012 11:17 PM (Edited)
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Uncorrected PAL is 720x576, corrected PAL should be 768x576. 768x326 is basically 2.35:1, so the 768-pixel width seems right.

Author: AntcuFaalb
Time: 18-Oct-2012 11:21 PM
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TServo2049 said:

Uncorrected PAL is 720x576, corrected PAL should be 768x576. 768x326 is basically 2.35:1, so the 768-pixel width seems right.

I know. I'm getting 768x576 before cropping and 768x326 after cropping.

A picture is worth a thousand words. Post 102 is worth more.

I’m late to the party, but I think this is the best song. Enjoy!

—Teams Jetrell Fo 1, Jetrell Fo 2, and Jetrell Fo 3

Author: AntcuFaalb
Time: 19-Oct-2012 12:05 PM
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Gunnar Thalin (author of Deshaker for Virtualdub) seems to think that gate weave is usually vertical, but the jitter in GOUT is entirely horizontal.

Is it possible that the jitter in GOUT is not caused by gate weave, but by something else entirely?

A picture is worth a thousand words. Post 102 is worth more.

I’m late to the party, but I think this is the best song. Enjoy!

—Teams Jetrell Fo 1, Jetrell Fo 2, and Jetrell Fo 3

Author: AntcuFaalb
Time: 25-Oct-2012 1:50 PM
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Any ideas on how to remove the haloing?

DeHalo_alpha makes it look worse.

A picture is worth a thousand words. Post 102 is worth more.

I’m late to the party, but I think this is the best song. Enjoy!

—Teams Jetrell Fo 1, Jetrell Fo 2, and Jetrell Fo 3

Author: AntcuFaalb
Time: 8-Nov-2012 11:35 AM
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Wait, rather than haloing, are those ringing artifacts?

A picture is worth a thousand words. Post 102 is worth more.

I’m late to the party, but I think this is the best song. Enjoy!

—Teams Jetrell Fo 1, Jetrell Fo 2, and Jetrell Fo 3

Author: You_Too
Time: 8-Nov-2012 2:04 PM
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No idea, but the de-ringing filters I've tried on the GOUT just made edges blurry. I don't think there's any way to really fix such things, other than frame by frame manual photoshopping.

Author: AntcuFaalb
Time: 8-Jan-2013 10:44 AM
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Another weird question: Why is GOUT so grainy if LFL used a DVNR-1000? Wouldn't the frame-blending kill most of the grain?

A picture is worth a thousand words. Post 102 is worth more.

I’m late to the party, but I think this is the best song. Enjoy!

—Teams Jetrell Fo 1, Jetrell Fo 2, and Jetrell Fo 3

Author: Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda
Time: 8-Jan-2013 11:05 AM
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AntcuFaalb said:

You_Too said:

@msycamore: You're right about the glue. I just checked Puggo's version of ESB and it's there.

The glue is ALL OVER the JSC. It's at the end of almost every shot (not scene!) change.

Hehe, and here I thought they were homemade 16mm splices!

"Close the blast doors!"
Puggo’s website | Rescuing Star Wars

Author: You_Too
Time: 8-Jan-2013 11:09 AM
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AntcuFaalb said:

Another weird question: Why is GOUT so grainy if LFL used a DVNR-1000? Wouldn't the frame-blending kill most of the grain?

That's exactly why I suspect the grain is fake, added after the DVNR in an attempt to cover it up.

Author: AntcuFaalb
Time: 8-Jan-2013 11:12 AM
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You_Too said:

AntcuFaalb said:

Another weird question: Why is GOUT so grainy if LFL used a DVNR-1000? Wouldn't the frame-blending kill most of the grain?

That's exactly why I suspect the grain is fake, added after the DVNR in an attempt to cover it up.

Possibly. Question: Are you thinking it was added in 1993 or in 2006?

A picture is worth a thousand words. Post 102 is worth more.

I’m late to the party, but I think this is the best song. Enjoy!

—Teams Jetrell Fo 1, Jetrell Fo 2, and Jetrell Fo 3

Author: pittrek
Time: 8-Jan-2013 12:44 PM
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I think it was done in 2006. Simply because the "bonus discs" HAD to look worse than the "remastered" editions

Author: AntcuFaalb
Time: 8-Jan-2013 12:53 PM
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Can someone check the 1993 DC or 1995 THX LDs to see if the grain approximately matches GOUT?

A picture is worth a thousand words. Post 102 is worth more.

I’m late to the party, but I think this is the best song. Enjoy!

—Teams Jetrell Fo 1, Jetrell Fo 2, and Jetrell Fo 3