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Which Cut? — Page 2

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CP3S said:I've heard it argued that the origami unicorn at the end doesn't make sense without the unicorn dream sequence, but prior to anyone ever seeing the unicern scene in the DC, we saw Deckard pick up the origami unicorn Gaff left and we simply assume it means Gaff has been there and let Rachel live.

Yes; the origami unicorn works absolutely fine without the dream sequence.  I prefer the film without it too.  My preferred version of Blade Runner would leave whether or not Deckard is a replicant as open as possible.

Bingowings said:  I read it as Gaff making a crude comment on how much of a man Deck had shown himself to be.  First he calls him chicken, then he makes a matchstick man with a hard on, then a horn of mythical stature.

lol

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captainsolo said:

Anybody remember trying to see all the versions back years ago? You couldn't see anything besides the Director's Cut for years. I finally tracked down the original VHS of the International cut, popped it in, and readily said: WTF? Then I saw the broadcast version. Ugh!

I've had an LD rip of the International Cut since the early 2000's, then DigitalFreakNYC came out with his brilliant little multi disc set. I remember following his thread for a long time and getting my hands on that set as soon as he released it. Waiting for that set is what prompted me to make my own version picking and choosing the bits I liked best. I never liked the DC much, save for the nifty quick cut to the credits at the end. Perfect ending for the film, IMHO. Probably one of my favorite movie endings of all time.

 

 

ChainsawAsh said:

A major theme of the film - one of the reasons I love it so much - is that the replicants, the individuals who are not human, turn out to be much more human than Deckard, the human whose job it is to hunt them down.  (That's part of why I like the "I'm sorry, Sebastian" line - it humanizes Roy a bit, which is part of the point of the movie.)

This also makes the Tyrell Corp.'s slogan more relevant and chilling - "More human than human."  It's true - Batty, an artificially-created being, is more human than Deckard, a human.

But all of that gets thrown out the window if Deckard's a replicant, too.  It destroys one of the core themes of the film, one of the themes I latched onto so strongly.

I was actually going to post something almost exactly like when I made my last post, but looked at my watch and realized I needed to run.

That is what the film has always meant to me. The "maybe Deckard is a replicant" idea has always felt a bit like an after thought that was shoved into the film to give it a heavy handed plot twist (and to make a nod at the book). Nothing else in the film seems to connect to or support the theme of Deckard being a replicant. It has always felt like a lose string tackily dangling off an otherwise almost perfect film to me.

It was the theme of Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep, and it worked very well in the book. But the book and the movie have very little in common beyond the setting, character names, and the basic plot outline of a bounty hunter sent to hunt down escaped rogue synthetic humans. Blade Runner kind of evolved its own philosophical questions independent of those of the book (more human than human, humans=cold, lonely, lifeless, disinterested; replicants=emotional, tight bonds, full of life and desire). I think adding in the the books philosophical questions, which were basically, "do androids dream of electric sheep?" (Deckard, a man living in a society where the type of robotic animal you own is a status symbol and longs to have one better than the one he has, is thrown for a loop when an android he is about to kill desires a painting, which among other things, causes him to begin to doubt his humanity), just muddled things and distracted from the relevancy of the "more human than human" theme.

 

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Good guy Ridley Scott.

“Grow up. These are my Disney's movies, not yours.”

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^if he can release a prequel that live up to the hype he would be the anti-Lucas.

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Bingowings said:


^if he can release a prequel that live up to the hype he would be the anti-Lucas.
I can't wait for the memes.

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The thing I've wondered is, if Deck is a replicant, how long has he been activated? Is all of his past with the police false, or has he been around for a while? Some have speculated that he's a malfunctioning replicant or a special model designed to help police the ranks of the other replicants.

Deck does exhibit many more human qualities than the others around him, just look at his approach to the job versus Holden. But if you follow along the reasoning that replicants act more humanely than actual humans and that Deckard finds this disturbing when he is having to retire them, finding out that he himself is one uproots his universe completely and makes those lingering sympathies ring true. Human or replicant, it makes sense but to me the replicant notion compounds any of the ideas.

I wish the Tyrell reveal scene had been filmed. The idea that Tyrell would be revealed to be a replicant and Roy finding the preserved hibernated corpse of the real man deep in the building sounded fantastic.

I could just discuss this film all freaking day. Just got the DC and International Criterion LDs and can't wait to get them fired up.

VADER!? WHERE THE HELL IS MY MOCHA LATTE? -Palpy on a very bad day.
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Going by the Replicant hypothesis he would have to be an earlier model than Roy as the fake memories seem to work better on him and he isn't as physically strong.

Near death Roy can leap with ease across the building, Deck only just manages to make to the girder.

If his function is to retire all the Nexus 6 models at large employing another replicant that nearly gets his eyes poked in by Leon seems a bit daft.

He only gets the job done because Rachel picks up his gun.

I think his real function is awaken Rachel to true emotional connection.

Which makes me not so concerned about her being the next step to perfecting the Replicant process.

She may not be superhuman like Roy but once she breaks through her conditioning she shows signs of genuine human behaviour.

There is a dichotomy inherent in the Tyrell Corp motto, more human than human is not human.

I wonder if she would pass the VK test after bonding with Deck?

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Bingowings said:

The new dove and the stunt replacement were fine but changing the dialogue so that Roy says "father" and says sorry to J.F. changes the dynamic of that scene so radically that I think it undermines the whole film.

 I'm pretty sure both "father" and... the other one were both filmed.  I have no source for this other than my memory, but I'd heard about the f'er/father thing way before the Final Cut and thought it was interesting.  Perhaps it was only shot for TV/Airline use, but my rough understanding is it was something other than that.

Maybe the book Future Noir could be of use here.

IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!

"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005

"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM

"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.

Rewrite the Prequels!

 

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tl;dr version:

Deckard is a replicant of Gaff (Edward James Olmos). Gaff, an experienced blade runner, is physically impaired and unable to hunt down the Nexus 6 replicants from the colony. The police arrange to use Deckard and implant all of Gaff's memories, knowledge, skills, etc. into him.

Gaff knows about the unicorn dream. That's why he makes the origami unicorn.

“Grow up. These are my Disney's movies, not yours.”

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I don't care how anyone tries to spin it.  To me, Deckard is not, never has been, and never will be a replicant.  I just close my eyes, stick my fingers in my ears and go "LALALALALA" when the unicorn scene pops up.

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georgec said:


tl;dr version:

Deckard is a replicant of Gaff (Edward James Olmos). Gaff, an experienced blade runner, is physically impaired and unable to hunt down the Nexus 6 replicants from the colony. The police arrange to use Deckard and implant all of Gaff's memories, knowledge, skills, etc. into him.

Gaff knows about the unicorn dream. That's why he makes the origami unicorn.
Holy crap, what?! Han Solo is a Cylon copy of Bill Adama?!

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Bingowings said:

^if he can release a prequel that live up to the hype he would be the anti-Lucas.

:(

*sniff*

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Yep... there goes that idea.

IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!

"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005

"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM

"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.

Rewrite the Prequels!

 

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Bingowings said:

For all the way.

My preferred versions.

Ditto.

Keep Circulating the Tapes.

END OF LINE

(It hasn’t happened yet)

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Tyrphanax said:

Bingowings said:

For all the way.

My preferred versions.

Ditto.

Tritto

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Sold!

 

What's with the tricksy avatar green one?