Tyrphanax said:
Look man. I dunno what else to tell you. I'm coming here with facts from various sources, trying my best to patiently explain everything to you the way it is meant to be interpreted and understood according to the books and movies and various other sources that are all canon, and all a part of the timeline, and you're just not hearing it.
That's cool, if you want to interpret stuff differently than what's intended, then you're perfectly entitled to do so; but I can't explain every single minute detail of the entire Star Wars universe, because a lot of it is just inferred. I can't tell you every planet that the Empire subjugated, all I can tell you is that the books and movies and video games and comics and everything infer that it happened.
If you want to interpret both sides of the Force as evil, that's also just fine. A lot of people have come to interpret that the Jedi Order was very corrupt and bordering on bad by the time of the Great Jedi Purge once the prequels came out and complicated what was before a very simple Light/Dark, Good/Evil, White/Black thing. I can't make you see that the Jedi Order is intended to be the good side and that they fight for justice and that means freeing the enslaved and rescuing the oppressed as well as fighting the evil influence of the Dark Side in all its forms.
If you want to interpret the Empire as good just because they didn't show everything they did that was bad and instead just inferred that they were bad (something which I don't think anyone else in the history of Star Wars has ever questioned), then that's fine; even though it's wrong.
If you want to interpret Moff Jerjerrod or any other person who died in Star Wars as having not died just because Lucas didn't pop up on the screen and say "Yep, he's dead forever!" every time someone croaked, that's fine, too; even though it's wrong.
If you want to interpret aliens being on a lesser plain than Humans in Star Wars, even though Admiral Ackbar outranked General Madine and was therefore his superior, then that's fine; even though it's wrong. Perhaps sentient was not the correct word to use in my last post, since apparently that extends now to animals in many areas; sapient however, is. My point with the comment about race is that, in Star Wars, a Mon Calamari, or a Bothan, or a Zabrak, or a Twi'lek, or a Wookiee, or any other alien species is equal to a human.
Ergo, a Wookiee is to a Human in Star Wars as a black person is to a white person in real life; and the same extends to any other sapient alien in the Star Wars universe.
Dolphins and cows or any other non-human animal are not sapient beings in real life; they do not possess "wisdom" or abstract thought or anything of the sort that makes humans human.
Again, and I know I can't make you understand this, but no matter what that Lucas quote says, there is only one Star Wars universe (except in the case of Infinities and overwritten canon) and all materials are a part of it.
Here is a quote:
"'Gospel,' or canon as we refer to it, includes the screenplays, the films, the radio dramas and the novelizations. These works spin out of George Lucas' original stories, the rest are written by other writers. However, between us, we've read everything, and much of it is taken into account in the overall continuity. The entire catalog of published works comprises a vast history—with many off-shoots, variations and tangents—like any other well-developed mythology."
And another:
"We've stuck to a very clear branding strategy for the past decade. This is Star Wars. Individual movies come and go, as do TV shows, video games, books. They all contribute to the lore of Star Wars, but in the end it is one saga and that saga is called Star Wars. We've wanted to send a clear message to our fans that everything we do is part of that overall saga."
And another:
"GL is certainly not bound by the EU, though he's certainly open to using things created in it (Aayla Secura and the Coruscant name, for example). On the other hand, the quote you provide makes it sound like the EU is separate from George's vision of the Star Wars universe. It is not. The EU must follow certain tenets set by George through the films and other guidelines that he provides outside of the films."
And here's one from Lucas himself:
"After Star Wars was released, it became apparent that my story—however many films it took to tell—was only one of thousands that could be told about the characters who inhabit its galaxy. But these were not stories I was destined to tell. Instead they would spring from the imagination of other writers, inspired by the glimpse of a galaxy that Star Wars provided. Today it is an amazing, if unexpected, legacy of Star Wars that so many gifted writers are contributing new stories to the Saga."
I realise these quotes will not make a lick of difference, but still.
Also, I know a lot of people who feel like the James Bond movies are all part of the same universe and the same continuity, as well.
The last true Sith Empire before the Republic was the one featured in the game Star Wars: The Old Republic, but after that there was The Brotherhood of Darkness, which was a very large Sith cult that was built from parts of the Sith Empire, and was eventually destroyed by the Thought Bomb, along with many Jedi, leaving only Darth Bane and his apprentice as the final Sith; Bane restarted Darth Revan's Rule of Two which would go on from Darth Bane, through many other Sith Lords, and end with Palpatine and Vader, afterwards, Darth Krayt would bring about a Sith Empire more akin to The Brotherhood of Darkness.
But I'm not sure if that matters because you so often flip between the EU being part of the canon and not being part of the canon. Your mind is so made up on all of this stuff that I just can't explain things well enough for it to make any difference, though, so we're at an impasse here; like I said earlier, I'm giving you all the proof anyone should need to see how Star Wars is supposed to be taken, interpreted, and understood, and you're just not hearing any of it, so I don't know how much longer I'm going to try.
The topic of this discussion is Darth Vader's policies if he was the one who ruled the galaxy, and, actually, this entire discussion pertains to that. So, Mace Windu said that "The opression of the Sith will never return", and Palpatine said that, "Once more the Sith will rule the galaxy, and we shall have peace". The Death Stars, or, rather, the ideas of the Death Star, was an idea that palpatine discussed with darth plageius as early as episode 1, according to the EU. The point is, the death star was part of the galactic Sith Empire ruled by Darth Sidious, it was his idea, and the sith didn't always have the death star, they existed for millenia without it, and still gained the reputation as opressive tyrannical dictators......
If Darth Vader became the Emperor, then he most likely would have done the things that the olden-days sith lords did, whatever they did. What "oppresive" things, to quote Mace Windu, did the Sith Empire do. Mace Windu had no idea about the death star, but he did know that the sith empire were tyrannical dictators.
Another thing-very few people in the galaxy believe in the force, therefore, they would not care if they are ruled by a Sith Lord; maybe the Jedi with different philosophical views do care, but the vast majority of everday average joe civilians do not.
As for canon issues, this discussion is very difficult to have with you, no offense, not so much just because we disagree with each other, but mainly , rather, we are using different logic and standards to discuss our opinions, that I don't really understand what U R talking about, and I actually misenterpt what u r saying (and vice versa).
For instance, I'll just forget about the james bond example, I'll instead use the spiderman films example to illustrate my point.
The Tobey Maguire Spiderman films are canon
The andrew garfield amazing spiderman movie series is canon too
The Stars wars 6-film saga is canon, and so is the EU (the expanded universe)
However, the Tobey and Garfield series are not in the same universe. While they both are canon-of that is there no doubt or debate, they are totally different storylines that Don't overalp with each other. For instance, in the andrew garfield spiderman movies reboot, he had a girlfriend, gwen stacy, while he was still in high school, and he fought the lizard when he was still in high school, he had web shooters and not organic webbing. In the Tobey Maguire films, his first girlfriend was mary jane watson MJ, curt connors never became the lizard, and his webbing was organic.
Now, I know that some EU details can be retconned if they contradict the films (a higher/main source of canon), and the main issue here is NOT about contradictions. But, the main point here is, the sam raimi and andrew garfield spiderman films are 2 totally different storylines that don't overalp with each other. I hate to repost this quote all over again, but I need it to illustrate my main point here-the EU is canon, the Star Wars films are canon, but they're two totally different storylines/universes that don't overlap with each other......
I don't know anything about that world. That's a different world than my world. But I do try to keep it consistent. The way I do it now is they have a Star Wars Encyclopedia. So if I come up with a name or something else, I look it up and see if it has already been used. When I said [other people] could make their own Star Wars stories, we decided that, like Star Trek, we would have two universes: My universe and then this other one. They try to make their universe as consistent with mine as possible, but obviously they get enthusiastic and want to go off in other directions."
The canon debate is important because you are using EU examples of the empire's atrocities to illustrate a point to the storlyine of the films, and the issue is, are they part of the same storyline??? There if contradicting evidence on both sides....