Harmy's STAR WARS Despecialized Edition HD - V2.7 - MKV (Released) — Page 281

Sounds like a sweet deal to me!

Harmy said:

The menu background video is done (same as show before with only slight variations), so once v2.1 is finished and I have all the audio and subtitle tracks, it hopefully shouldn't be too difficult to put the thing together.

 Nice one!  That menu looked really slick, how are things going on Reel 2?

Just for the sake of hearing all the sides to this conversation, I would like to ask one time that an MKV NOT be released.  There is just no reason for it, and in the long run it will hurt the project by dividing the pool of sharers between virtually identical files.  

The problem I see is that you would be releasing two identical video/audio streams.  That means instead of having 100 seeds sharing the file on a torrent, you will have two files with 50 seeds.  For the health of the project and its longevity I think a single unified release is the best option.  VLC plays .m2ts files.  To remux a .m2ts to .mkv takes a single command (mkvmerge 00000.m2ts -o deed21.mkv) and a couple minutes.  I don't see a situation where a person would be able to play the mkv but not be able to work with the avchd.  I do see situations where a person could play the avchd but not the mkv.  If the audio and video feeds are identical, and there are no menus, there is no reason to release the exact same file twice in two different containers.  Why not release it as an .mp4?  Why not ogg?  At some point you just have to say it doesn't make sense to release the same file in every container.  If people want .mkv, just add 3 lines to the readme explaining how to remux .m2ts to .mkv.  No sane person would release a work as .rar, .zip, tar.gz, and .7zip.  

That is the equivalent of what people are asking of you.  "I like rar better than zip. Release as rar because I already have winrar installed." "No, release as zip, windows has native zip support."  It is a silly debate, and I think it is perfectly clear why you would not release something as both a rar and zip.

Everyone has to understand that this project serves a much larger audience than the tech literate.  If you only release one file type, half the community will complain that they want the other one.  I think an ISO is a more understood filetype than MKV for people who don't understand technology.  Any computer with burning software knows what to do with an ISO.  IMHO it is more "idiot proof."  To the person that does not know what they are doing "insert blank disc, double click file, press burn, stick disc in blu-ray player" is as about as simple as it can get.  Trying to get grandma to use tsmuxer or multiavchd is an uphill battle.  If you are using MKV, presumably you are already a tiny bit tech literate.  Unpacking an iso and  copy/pasting a command into the command prompt should be easy as pie.  Heck you could even include mkvmerge, and 7zip, and a batch file and have a one click avchd2mkv converter.

I vote for now to JUST release the AVCHD and keep the community united instead of fragmented.  It will allow the file being passed around the web to remain healthier.  Hold off on the blu-ray until whenever you like, as it will be nearly identical video quality anyway.

If I could make a request, it would be for a TRILOGY BLU-RAY once you are done.  Since each avchd .m2ts file is 7gb, that means you could get ALL THREE on a single 25GB BD.  That would mean simple menus and no bonus features, but I think it would be awesome to have a single disc with all three movies.  It would also be the easiest way to share physical copies with people and not overwhelm them.  One disc, one case, one trilogy.

I'm sorry, but I absolutely CAN'T agree with the previous comment. EDIT - Harmy is faster than me, so "previous" means "Wabid's" :-)

"I don't see a situation where a person would be able to play the mkv but not be able to work with the avchd.  I do see situations where a person could play the avchd but not the mkv."

Nonsense. I know NOBODY who is not a member of this forum and knows what an AVCHD is, and all of them know how to play mkv files.

Sorry, but mkv is the standard for "releasing" HD "unofficial" movies, it has many advantages and no disadvantages.

Also I can't agree with a TRILOGY BLU-RAY, I think it's a very stupid idea. The ONLY reason why "I" (and I think most of the fans of Harmy's work) want a BD release it to have all the audio and subtitle tracks, nice menus, and nice bonus features. There is no chance you would make ONE disc and have it all contained there

Harmy said:

Wow, that was a long post to support one simple point ;-)

And the plan is as follows:

Finish v2.1

release AVCHD first, as that will have the shortest rendering, authoring, uploading and downloading times.

render the larger BD video stream - author a simple BD with simple menu, lossless audio and only the some simple extras.

start working on ESB.

Keep working on extras throughout.

Release a bonus BD for the whole trilogy when it's all done.

So, no mkv ? :-) And I agree with the rest

Personally I'll take whatever format the final is released in. I'm by no means a tech saavy genius but a simple google search has taught me all I need to know to convert files to Blu Ray format or whatever format. It takes minimal effort on our part to do a little research.  I realize some of you guys are old though haha (just kidding) 

I will take them all ! mkv now... trilogy of Blu later !

The sooner Harmy can start working on ESB 2.0, the better.  Can't wait to get 2.1, but i'm sure it'll be nice for you to work on some fresh (relatively) material.

Sweet - I'm down for keeping it simple. AVCHD may be a tiny bit lower bitrate, but will still look awesome :)

As for lossless audio: consider stereo (2 tracks) 16-bit 44.1Khz WAV format about 10MB/min.
FLAC is about 1/2 that, give or take. At, let's say 121 min., 1 stereo track would be about 605MB. Half that for one track, then times six (for "5.1") = 1815MB.
If FLAC isn't used, and we're talking 16-bit 44.1Khz uncompressed, 3630MB.
If we're talking 24-bit 96Khz WAV, likely around 6GB. At that size, however, you'd still have room for most, if not all of the other "lossy" tracks I would bet, plus a relatively small animated menu. Might be pushing the limit of a 25GB ("23.3" usable is what shows in Windows...) disc, but it should end up being "just right." (6GB + 16.5 = 22.5 .. little room there for a menu still!).

Nonsense. I know NOBODY who is not a member of this forum and knows what an AVCHD is, and all of them know how to play mkv files. 

It doesn't matter if you know what an avchd is.  It is an iso file that you burn to a disc that plays in all bluray players.  AVCHD is basically the same thing as BD5.  Everyone knows what a bluray is.  "Here is a disc, it plays in your bluray player" is much simpler than "here greg, you will need a laptop, vlc, an hdmi cable and optical out to your stereo."

AVHCD isn't some standard invented by this community.  MKV being more popular in piracy circles is irrelevant.  Is it fair for me to assume that all your friends who know what MKV is, are pirates?  That isn't the only audience this project should cater to.  The fact of the matter is, its easier to release the more complicated file and remux it to the simpler one.

Sorry, but mkv is the standard for "releasing" HD "unofficial" movies, it has many advantages and no disadvantages. 

Good luck getting it to play on sony blu-ray players.  Pleae explain to me the advantage of MKV over M2TS other than you recognize one extension and not the other.  BLURAY is a more popular standard than MKV.  AVCHD is a Bluray file structure that fits on a 8 gig disc.  If Harmy want's this release to be watched primarly on laptops an MKV would be fine.  But the intent is to be compatible with Home Theater Systems.  What is one of the most popular Blu-ray player?  PS3.  What doesn't play MKV?  PS3.  Go ask Grandma if she knows what MKV is.  Go ask her if she has heard of Blu-ray.  Harmy, you have a polling bias here.  Everyone here knows how to play MKV files and thinks it is easier.  You need to think about the bigger picture and giving friends and tech illiterate adults discs that have never heard of OT.com.  If you want a universal standard that will play with every HDTV and PC, AVCHD/BD5 is the correct choice.  OS X Mountain Lion has native support for AVCHD in Quicktime, as does Windows 7 with Media Player 11(except starter/homebasic)  Does Windows 7 natively support mkv? The people telling you MKV is a better standard are completely ignoring the fact that AVCHD is natively supported by all major operating systems and set top hardware, and MKV often requires third party software.

The people that would vote for avchd over mkv are precisely the people that would never wander into OT.com, but absolutely the crowd you want to cater to.  The primary goal should be complete home theater compatibility, something mkv does not offer.  Furthermore it makes NO SENSE to upload the same file to the community twice in two slightly different containers, when you can just run a single command to convert (remux is a better word because it is copying the audio/video stream not transcoding/reencoding it) from m2ts to mkv.  

Also I can't agree with a TRILOGY BLU-RAY, I think it's a very stupid idea. 

Why couldn't there be a TRILOGY BLU-RAY and a Trilogy Set of 3 blurays?  I don't see how one idea invalidates the other.  The ideas are not mutually exclusive.  I think there would be a huge benefit to a 25GB iso with all three movies.

So, in essence, you just want to hand creation of the most popular format over to unofficial actions. Got it.

If you think doubleclicking a .bat file and having it automatically remux a file for you is hand creation, then yes.

As for bitrate, the AVCHD release shouldn't have a crazy amount of languages.  Save that for the BD.

Everyone advocating MKV is still missing the point.  It doesnt matter what container the streams are in.  MKV/M2TS are just containers around video/audio streams, and the audio video streams are identical.  Remuxing is the equivelant of unzipping something and rarring it.  MKV being popular in piracy circles is a stupid reason to vote for it.  If you can play MKV files you can play M2TS files the exact same way.  By clicking on them.

^ lol - good points. The larger MKV may have slightly higher bitrate for video, but we will end up getting a 'proper' blu ray disc release eventually anyway, so everyone should be happy! We should be happy that we're getting a good release soon, with an even BETTER (full blu ray) one in the near future!

I'm also a fan of the AVCHD format due to the simplicity of making a disc that is easily playable. Besides, yes, the 'container' matters very little - would be funny if Harmy did end up throwing those extra files to convert into the package.. for AVCHD, I'd still prefer an ISO or just the files/folders that would fit on disc as they currently are - extras might make it confusing to burn as AVCHD (especially if it's larger than what'll fit on disc). Either way, should be good times for all, and we'll eventually have a very, very, very nice non-SE set, which is ultimately the coolest thing ever.

Look, if you want to watch isos on your computer instead of burning them, all you need to do is have virtual clone drive and mount the file (OSX/Windows 8 have native iso mounting), which takes one click.  Windows Media Player 11 will then automatically launch the video once it is mounted.  It doesn't get easier than that.  (Alternatively, you could right click on the file and uniso it with 7zip or your zipping software.) AVCHD has NATIVE OPERATING SYSTEM SUPPORT on Windows and OSX AND all set top boxes.  MKV is not a universal standard like AVCHD is.

Harmy if you want to cater to laptops release an MKV.  If you want to cater to Home Theaters release an AVCHD.  It makes no sense in the world to release the exact same audio/video stream twice in two different containers just because a couple stubborn users refuse to remux a file.

No, it's easier to download a file and play it in a media player on your computer than to wait for your computer to remux. 

It takes minutes to remux the file.  You only have to do it ONCE and then you will have an mkv file forever.  We are talking about adding 5 minutes to your download time.  The entire premise of this project is patients and getting it right.  Saving you five minutes of remuxing does not justify creating twice the workload for harmy to maintain every time he releases something.  I am talking about a long term policy here.  If he releases an avchd and mkv he would be doing so for the 8gb and 25gb copies, for all three movies.  You are now asking him to upload 200 gigs to the internet every time he updates his trilogy instead of 100.

I am not bickering, I am offering Harmy a recommendation and a persuasive argument as to which container allows the widest audience to view his work, without two nearly identical/fragmented copies of his work floating around.  If he cares about reaching the widest audience even if it takes him a tiny bit more time (which it looks like he does by liking my suggestion to include mkvmerge) he will release an avchd.

If your distribution of BSD comes with iso mounting software (it does) and a media player (likely) it will work too.  

and to quote me

AVCHD is natively supported by all major operating systems and set top hardware

Sure there is a chance your variant of BSD is stripped of fundamental software such as a media player or ffmpeg, but at that point you should probably install a media player or an mkv would be worthless anyway.

To quote http://www.kucher.org/projects/avchd/

After compiling the latest version of FFmpeg, I found that AVCHD just works on Linux. 

and this was written in 2008 or 2009.