Warbler said:
so 6 million jews were not murdered in Germany? I am pretty sure the Holocaust was legal in Germany at the time. Just because murder is legal, doesn't mean it isn't murder.
Well, technically no, I suppose. "Executed" among other words, would be more accurate.
CP3S said:
What does it hurt you, living in New Jersey, if some woman in California decides to terminate her pregnancy? The answer: not at all whatsoever. You are entirely unaffected, 100%.
I imagine you'll probably compare it to murder again, saying something along the lines of, "What does it hurt you, living in wherever you live, if a woman in California is raped and murdered by some thug? The answer: not at all whatsoever. You are entirely unaffected, 100%. "
right, and yet you think the murder of that woman should be outlawed but murder of the baby not.
Already covered in the very post you are quoting from.
CP3S said:
Then you'd probably write something like "Fixed!" under it.
?
You know how you take quotes from other people, make changes to them, then exclaim "Fixed!"? Lot's of people here do it, you know what I am talking about.
CP3S said:
Allowing things like murder and rape to go without punishment or consequences would create anarchy.
it would also be morally wrong and would allow people to violate peoples' right to live and not be raped
Yeah, pretty much what I was saying.
CP3S said:
Obviously, I don't want to have to worry about being picked off by someone every time I step out my door because he might think my car is nice or that the girl I am with is pretty and he wants them for himself. Nobody does. It'd make life miserable and society would crumble.
so let me get this straight, you only care about someone being murdered, about that person's right to live being violated, when it affects you? I find selfish.
Nope, you don't have it straight at all. And I completely covered all that in the very post you're quoting from.
CP3S said:
Again, what does some aborted fetus that you never even knew existed do to harm you or society or anyone else in this country other than the two people who conceived it? Again, nada. All those abortion that took place this very day, this week, and the past month, they had nothing to do with you and they didn't harm you. They don't effect your life in anyway.
they don't, but I care anyway. I care about human life. I care about the right of a human to live. Just like I care about all the death happening over in the middle east and other places. I can't believe you'd actually try to argue that I shouldn't care about human life being snuffed out, as long as it doesn't effect me.
I'm not arguing that at all.
But when it comes to abortion, something deemed legal and socially acceptable by the supreme court and the powers that be, I think it is silly to get your panties all tangled up simply because your neighbors are doing something you personally find morally wrong.
This moralistic thinking is also what leads to racism and homophobia. According to the Bible homosexuality is wrong, right? So would you be quite bothered if your male next door neighbor spent his weekend lovingly sodomizing another dude? I don't think you would, because you feel gay people should be treated the same as anyone else and what they do as consenting adults in their lives doesn't affect us.
The bottom line is, it isn't your body that has this parasitic early stage of human life growing inside of you. In fact, it is something you will never have to experience, or fear the potential of experiencing when you are not ready for it. It doesn't affect you, and it is only your personal morals (thus not shared by everyone, not even everyone in your own country) that are condemning it.
Have you forgotten that the right to live was called an inalienable right by the Declaration of Independence? According to that document, the right to live comes not from any law, but from nature.
Show me where that applies to potential people? Should we extend it to sperm cells, as potential potentials? Someone mentioned their dog was more of a person than an unborn fetus was, I don't think I could go that far not really being much of a pet person, but nobody argued with him on it so perhaps it wasn't seen as that outrageous of a comment. A lot of people swear their pet is a "person". Since their sensibilities are inclined to think of pets as people, should they then fight for the inalienable rights of dogs and cats?
I think you are kind of stretching by claiming the Declaration of Independence's "unalienable right to life" pertains to abortion. I think we can both agree that is not what was in mind when it was written, and if you take it to mean that, you suddenly find yourself in all sorts of sticky dilemmas. So now we are alienating the unborn baby's right to life because his father is a rapist or because his mother's life is in danger? That doesn't fit the definition of "inalienable". Now we are back to a convenience thing (and I probably just reoffended Frink), sometimes we see fit to grant the right to life to our unborn, and sometimes we feel justified in alienating that right.
I think I have already well demonstrated that even you, Warbler, don't hold a fetus at the same value as a small child.
CP3S said:
It is all about morality and forcing that morality on others.
did you ever stop and think that maybe you are forcing your morality on the unborn child?
I'm not forcing any morality on anyone. If you don't feel right about abortion, then I strongly encourage you not to get an abortion. The unborn child, I suppose has to be at the mercy of those who conceived him.
CP3S said:
You think abortion is wrong, and therefore you don't want anybody to be able to do it...
yes, just like I don't want anyone to murder 6 million jews, even if it is legal in the country where it would happen.
I truly hope you see that there is a very massive difference between those two things you are comparing.
CP3S said:
so you believe that the fetus is human life, yet you are willing to allow women to decide to kill them?
Yup.
that's nuts.
I know, right!
CP3S said:
CP3S said:
snuffing that out should not be something taken lightly.yet it is, every day.
Do you think that many people are so flippant about it? Maybe they are. In that case educating would be a good idea. Of course, it is hard for people to want to listen when they see people trying to take their rights away.
I think part of the reason so many people have such a stunted view on abortion has a lot to do with a knee jerk reaction to those who are so vehemently against it. When someone has a good point to make, but they go about making that point in the wrong kind of way, it is hard to want to have even the slightest acceptance of their views. The Westboro Baptists for example, a lot of people fundamentally agree with their anti-war stance, but still feel like puking every time they hear about what these idiots do to make their points.
I think if there wasn't such a strong, forceful, religiously centered opposition to abortion, more people would be willing to look at it objectively and draw tighter boundaries. Instead, it is a right that is perceived as being under attack.