Secession! — Page 2

CP3S said:

darth_ender said

Besides, he's seriously hampered by Republicans maintaining control of the House.

Yay for living in a country that can never accomplish anything politically!

you see we piddle, twiddle, and resolve, not one damn thing do we solve!

piddle twiddle and resolve, nothings ever solved. 

CP3S said:

Warbler said:

Bingowings said:

Secede from what?

he means secede from the Union, The United States Of America.  Its what the south tried to do during the Civil War. 

And our government killed them for it. It wasn't awesome.

I realize it is just a conspiracy theory, but maybe slavery had something to do with it?   And please remember the south did its fair share of killing those on the government side. 

Oh goodness, children.  I am happy for a system of checks and balances.  We do accomplish things in our system, even if it is slow and contentious.  I believe that is the purpose of dividing power, is it not?

And Bingo, I do understand that.  No disrespect to other stable nations.  Just saying that I'm glad mine is stable and successful.

1990osu, since the Civil War, the Supreme Court ruled that no state could legally secede, based rather flimsily on the line, "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union..." from the Preamble.  At least, that's what I read somewhere.  I'm in a hurry and can't back it up right now.  Anyway, I still agree with the ruling because we need a strong federal government to maintain our unity.  But Texas indeed can legally secede because it was worked into their constitution, something the federal government would not have allowed for any other state joining the union.

Interestingly I read in the news today that Puerto Ricans voted in a non-binding referendum for statehood.  We may see a 51st state not too far down the road.

Sweet, they can then push to secede!

Warbler said:

CP3S said:

Warbler said:

Bingowings said:

Secede from what?

he means secede from the Union, The United States Of America.  Its what the south tried to do during the Civil War. 

And our government killed them for it. It wasn't awesome.

I realize it is just a conspiracy theory, but maybe slavery had something to do with it?   And please remember the south did its fair share of killing those on the government side. 

You're right, it was all about slavery. That is why people in the north didn't have any slaves at that time. Makes total sense!

*sigh*

Come on Warb, it is well documented historical fact.

You can pretend America is this fantastic place with the unfortunate exception of these backward southern assholes who used to own slaves and are still crazy racists who would invoke all sorts of racist law and gunship runs of the Mexican border if they had their way all you want, but the fact remains that slavery was nation wide and the Civil War was about maintaining the union. They weren't fighting to the death and risking their lives for their right to own slaves. Plenty of those fighting and dying on the southern side in the Civil War didn't even own slaves. There were even a decent number of former slaves fighting on the southern side. They're were plenty fighting on the northern side who were slave owners. The south was fighting for their freedom to rule themselves; and the north was fighting to maintain the Union.

I'm not even an American and I know about the Underground Railroad.

It's a bit pricey but the buskers are great.

CP3S said:

Warbler said:

CP3S said:

Warbler said:

Bingowings said:

Secede from what?

he means secede from the Union, The United States Of America.  Its what the south tried to do during the Civil War. 

And our government killed them for it. It wasn't awesome.

I realize it is just a conspiracy theory, but maybe slavery had something to do with it?   And please remember the south did its fair share of killing those on the government side. 

You're right, it was all about slavery. That is why people in the north didn't have any slaves at that time. Makes total sense!

All the states that seceded were slave states.  the majority of the ones that didn't secede were non-slave states.    prior to civil war America had slavery, after the civil America did not have slavery.  Coincidence?  How about the fact that the Vice President of the Confederacy called slavery the cornerstone of the Confederacy?  

CP3S said:

*sigh*

Come on Warb, it is well documented historical fact.

what is?  that the North and South had been arguing over slavery for years prior to the Civil War.   That a rule was put in place that for every free state entering the Union, a slave state had to be added?   

CP3S said:

You can pretend America is this fantastic place with the unfortunate exception of these backward southern assholes who used to own slaves and are still crazy racists who would invoke all sorts of racist law

it certainly wasn't pretend up to the 1960's.

CP3S said:

but the fact remains that slavery was nation wide

not just prior to the Civil War. 

CP3S said:

 They weren't fighting to the death and risking their lives for their right to own slaves. Plenty of those fighting and dying on the southern side in the Civil War didn't even own slaves. There were even a decent number of former slaves fighting on the southern side.

many of the slaves fighting the southern side did either because they were forced to by their masters, or because they were promised freedom in return for fighting for the south. 

CP3S said:

The south was fighting for their freedom to rule themselves; and the north was fighting to maintain the Union.

and it exactly why did the south want to rule itself?  because it wanted to maintain slavery.    Stop pretending slavery only became an issue when Lincoln signed the Emancipation Proclamation.   It was a major bone of contention for years between north and south. 

Fun times in Cleveland ot.com today!

...

We're not Detroit!

Here's the deal: Texas can leave only if we can make up for it by purchasing or invading and stealing Quebec from our neighbors to the North.

Shut up and give me your votes for Emperor of the Universe. 

Correct me if I am wrong but wasn't the 1850 compromise as much about land rights as slave legislation?

CP3S said:

Warbler said:

I realize it is just a conspiracy theory, but maybe slavery had something to do with it?   And please remember the south did its fair share of killing those on the government side. 

You're right, it was all about slavery. That is why people in the north didn't have any slaves at that time. Makes total sense!

*sigh*

Come on Warb, it is well documented historical fact.

You can pretend America is this fantastic place with the unfortunate exception of these backward southern assholes who used to own slaves and are still crazy racists who would invoke all sorts of racist law and gunship runs of the Mexican border if they had their way all you want, but the fact remains that slavery was nation wide and the Civil War was about maintaining the union. They weren't fighting to the death and risking their lives for their right to own slaves. Plenty of those fighting and dying on the southern side in the Civil War didn't even own slaves. There were even a decent number of former slaves fighting on the southern side. They're were plenty fighting on the northern side who were slave owners. The south was fighting for their freedom to rule themselves; and the north was fighting to maintain the Union.

The Civil War was about slavery. The South wanted out of the union to protect slavery. The wanted freedom to let themselves have slaves.

 Actual Documented historical facts:

Mississippi's Declaration of Sessession: “Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery, the greatest material interest of the world . . . [A] blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization . . . There was no choice left us but submission to the mandates of abolition, or a dissolution of the Union …”

Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union:  We assert that fourteen of the States have deliberately refused, for years past, to fulfill their constitutional obligations, and we refer to their own Statutes for the proof.” ... an increasing hostility on the part of the non-slaveholding States to the institution of slavery. ... In many of these States the fugitive is discharged from service or labor claimed ...”

This argues against state rights and for Federal power, claiming that Northern states were ignoring the federal rights of slave owners as identified by Constitution. , specifically the Fugitive Slave Act.

The first thing the Confederate Constitution did was FEDERALLY protect slavery. States in the Confederacy had NO RIGHTS to limit slavery.

The only 'rights' they cared about was the right to own slaves. Other 'causes' of the war were invented by post-war apologists.

Read the original documents.

Bingowings said:

Correct me if I am wrong but wasn't the 1850 compromise as much about land rights as slave legislation?

 A couple things, like Texas's western edge, and the Mormons not getting a big state (help me out Ender... was it The State of Desierta), were in it, but the vast majority of the decisions were based on keeping the Slave/Free state thing from exploding for another decade.

xhonzi said:

39 replies and no:

"You're beginning to sound like a Separatist!"?

 

I am disappoint.

It didn't make it into AOTR either.

CP3S said:

You can pretend America is this fantastic place with the unfortunate exception of these backward southern assholes who used to own slaves and are still crazy racists who would invoke all sorts of racist law

No need to pretend!

http://www.salon.com/2012/11/09/where_are_americas_racist_anti_obama_tweets_coming_from/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/campus-overload/post/obamas-re-election-sparks-racially-charged-protest-at-ole-miss/2012/11/07/35129110-2914-11e2-bab2-eda299503684_blog.html?socialreader_check=0&denied=1

I did do that Duke Dooku. You too. You do that Duke Dooku too.

Also, we've never been to the moon.

1990osu said:

That's crazy.  Of course we have been to the moon.

Yes, *that* was crazy.  But your previous post was completely sane, right?

I'm on the moon right now.

Hi!