Info: OT Bootleg DVDs — Page 48

Author: Patrick R.
Time: 20-Aug-2004 2:59 PM
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So, is this factory punched dual layered set different from the one Endor Forrest was offering? I ask because I heard the Endor Forrest set wasn't that good.

Patrick

"When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk." - Tuco from The Good, The Bad And The Ugly

Author: TR47
Time: 20-Aug-2004 3:03 PM
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It's the same thing. RowMan says that despite it being factory punched, the transfer is not as good as my set, nor is the audio PCM. I haven't seen it yet but I ordered a set and will judge for myself. Not to mention that the set got no votes at all on the "best bootleg" poll should tell you something.

I'm not insulting anyone, but the set was produced under less than ideal circumstances from what I understand, ie no direct communication between the creators and the US coordinators.

Author: LittleWing
Time: 20-Aug-2004 3:37 PM
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krazyaboutstarwarsdvd-

I'm having a hard time understanding your posts. Try to use proper punctuation (and sentence structure), and then I might be able to fully comprehend what you are saying.

I'm looking into the dual-layer "Definitive Edition" right now (offered by kduwe@juno.com and his brother rlduwe@aol.com), as it seems to offer cases and some nice cover art/inserts/disc art. I'm also thinking about TR47's deluxe "7-disc" set (with "From Star Wars to Jedi" and all those extra commercials and tid-bits). No cases/art however. Duwe's set is $30 (I think), and TR47's "7-disc" set is $40: which would you guys choose? Thanks! (hope I'm not breaking any forum rules with this post . . . )

Author: Kristhemovieman
Time: 20-Aug-2004 8:21 PM
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I would say that yes your right on a few things tr47 but yours is now floating arround mine has only seen the light for say 4 months tops and my honets opinion both sets have there flaws and the vid and audio are about the same but i cant speak for all of us

damn got to go

talk to all soon

Author: Kristhemovieman
Time: 20-Aug-2004 8:21 PM
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before i go how the hell do you post a pic here ???

Author: MeBeJedi
Time: 20-Aug-2004 8:42 PM
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" Obviously I need to spell this out. Just as there are DVD players that are WM9 compat, Div-X compat, etc there are players that will TURN NON-ANAMORPHIC DVD VIDEO INTO ANAMORPHIC WHILE PLAYED ON THE FLY by interpolating the extra lines."

How about, instead of "spelling it out", you post just one, simple link to a single player that does this. I'm still waiting...

"what I mean is all you're doing is spreading the original material out, thusly leaving gaps filled with the interpolated stuff. Therefore it will never sound as good as the original Prologic-II soundtrack."

Ironic, since my 5.1 mix is made by playing the PCM soundtrack through a simulated Pro-logic II decoder. :^O

" I think you're confused about how anamorphic widescreen works for DVDs. It doesn't add any additional lines, and the DVD player doesn't convert anything. It's the monitor that does that. Most players will downconvert anamorphic to regular letterbox or zoom in, but that's just adding black space, not adding or subtracting extra lines. Like multiple people have mentioned, you give us the model number(s), and we'll take your word on these magical anamorphic-converting players. "

Agreed on all counts. Playing an anamorphic DVD on a regular TV is the worst situation, because the player has to down-convert the 16x9 signal to 4x3. You lose resolution.

"ETA: Is the top pic your conversion, MeBeJedi? It looks pretty damn awesome."

The top is the AVI capture, the bottom is the MPEG. Baring any future significant improvements, that's pretty much what my DVD will look like. I'm doing a full capture today.

"before i go how the hell do you post a pic here ???"

When you hit the "reply" button, the next screen will have the buttons B I U

http://www.originaltrilogy.com/forum/i/editoricons/image.gif

. The

button is the "image" button (it looks like a picture.)

MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.

MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.

JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.

Author: Itchy
Time: 20-Aug-2004 9:01 PM
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Originally posted by: LittleWing
New poster here, but I've been following the discussions on this forum for awhile. I'm thinking about buying another bootleg set, and I was wondering if any of you have experience with playing these on an Xbox (my primary DVD player at the moment, besides my laptop's). I have an older set of Asian bootlegs (audio-video sync problems and all), and the Xbox has a very hard time reading these DVD-R's (plays them only once in a "blue moon" for some reason).

I'm thinking about going for the TR47 set, but I'm worried that my Xbox will have a hard time reading these also. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Hey littlewing.

I have both the TR47 set and the anamorphic set. They both play on my xbox without any problem. I have a first generation xbox to boot.

Mike

Author: DanielB
Time: 20-Aug-2004 9:46 PM
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Originally posted by: Itchy

Hey littlewing.

I have both the TR47 set and the anamorphic set. They both play on my xbox without any problem. I have a first generation xbox to boot.

Mike

That doesn't mean anything since from what I hear they've got worse not better. MeBeJedi, if you're going to insist ... some JVC players do it. XV-N44SL, XV-FA95 ... here's a review mentioning this feature. "This player properly scales non-anamorphic DVDs and can zoom during progressive playback. Very few players at any price can do this."

Author: MeBeJedi
Time: 20-Aug-2004 11:21 PM
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"here's a review mentioning this feature. "This player properly scales non-anamorphic DVDs and can zoom during progressive playback. Very few players at any price can do this."

Well, there ya go. You are misreading what this person is saying (and it's simply a review from Joe-Schmo, rather than from JVC.)

Now, if we were to go straight to the horse's mouth...

Progressive Scan Output, "Digital Direct" that can produce the video output at twice the conventional speed to allow the direct conversion of DVD's 24fps into progressive 60fps for display on your TV, thereby avoiding the quality disadvantages of I/P conversion.

When you click on the link to that, you get...

Progressive Scan Output
Video output that carries a video signal in which each horizontal line follows the next--unlike an interlaced output, which presents the odd-numbered horizontal lines, then the even-numbered horizontal lines, and so on. Progressive-scan video has less flicker and fewer motion artifacts than the traditional interlaced-scanning method.

Sorry, but "progressive-scan" has nothing to do with anamorphic. You've mixed your terms.

BTW, Laserman, you are "DA MAN"! Alpysoft gave me only 9 dropped frames, and a 45 GB file. DAMN!!!!!!

MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.

MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.

JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.

Author: DanielB
Time: 21-Aug-2004 12:02 AM
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Urgh, no it has nothing to do with that, do you want me to go google hunting until I find another review that spells it out more clearly? It takes the non-anamorphic source and converts it to Anamorphic - it has nothing to do with being able to play progressive while in 4:3 mode. HERE YOU ARE, END OF DISCUSSION:

The RP91 is a solidly built player that produces a very nice progressive image. I really like its autoscale feature. It automatically scales 4:3, letterbox, anamorphic, and non-anamorphic movies to their correct aspect ratio. This feature really shines in effortlessly scaling and playing non-anamorphic movies as anamorphic! The RP91 is the only unit in this price range that is capable of doing this. (A fellow enthusiast however submits that his JVC XV-D723GD also has that capability.) This feature is especially critical to owners of sets that have no image size control or lock to "Full" mode when sent a 480p signal. This player also has a littany of menu options for video and audio which adds to its flexibility to meet user preferences. I may actually get one not only for its autoscale feature but also for its audio (DVD-A) capability.

http://www.keohi.com/keohihdtv/videodevices/skyworth1050p/skyworth_minishootout.html

Go on tell me I still don't know what I'm talking about.

Author: LittleWing
Time: 21-Aug-2004 12:26 AM
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Itchy-

Thanks a lot for your input! My Xbox is a fairly early model (Philips drive), and plays everything I've thrown in it, including CD-R's, CD-RW's, etc. It's only had a hard time reading my cheap Asian Star Wars bootlegs. BTW: I decided on TR47's 7-disc set. Thanks again!

Author: MeBeJedi
Time: 21-Aug-2004 12:43 AM
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You still don't know what you are talking about, but I'll let someone else explain it to you in a thread more suited to this discussion.

MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.

MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.

JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.

Author: bad_karma24
Time: 21-Aug-2004 12:57 AM
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Originally posted by: DanielB
Urgh, no it has nothing to do with that, do you want me to go google hunting until I find another review that spells it out more clearly? It takes the non-anamorphic source and converts it to Anamorphic - it has nothing to do with being able to play progressive while in 4:3 mode. HERE YOU ARE, END OF DISCUSSION:

The RP91 is a solidly built player that produces a very nice progressive image. I really like its autoscale feature. It automatically scales 4:3, letterbox, anamorphic, and non-anamorphic movies to their correct aspect ratio. This feature really shines in effortlessly scaling and playing non-anamorphic movies as anamorphic! The RP91 is the only unit in this price range that is capable of doing this. (A fellow enthusiast however submits that his JVC XV-D723GD also has that capability.) This feature is especially critical to owners of sets that have no image size control or lock to "Full" mode when sent a 480p signal. This player also has a littany of menu options for video and audio which adds to its flexibility to meet user preferences. I may actually get one not only for its autoscale feature but also for its audio (DVD-A) capability.

http://www.keohi.com/keohihdtv/videodevices/skyworth1050p/skyworth_minishootout.html

Go on tell me I still don't know what I'm talking about.

You don't know what you're talking about. Happy?

Scaling and anamorphic video are not the same thing. Scaling is re-sizing a picture by interpolation to match a resolution irrespective of it's original resolution. For example, some TVs automatically lock into "Full" or "Stretch" mode when a progressive mode is output. This can be a problem if the image is not anamorphic, it will be stretched and have very thick black bars. Scaling simple stretches it vertically so it's not stretched.

Gentlemen, you can’t fight in here, this is the war room!

Author: MeBeJedi
Time: 21-Aug-2004 1:00 AM
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^^^Thank you.

MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.

MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.

JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.

Author: DanielB
Time: 21-Aug-2004 1:02 AM
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The DVD players in question DO take non-anamorphic material and interpolate it to Anamorphic; EXCATLY what I said originally inj defence of releasing the DVDs as non-anamorphic, from the quote This feature really shines in effortlessly scaling and playing non-anamorphic movies as anamorphic! I also know someone who has a JVC DVD Player that does this - takes non-anamorphic video and makes it anamorphic. You right, it stretches the picture vertically - AS IF IT IS ANAMORPHIC BY INTERPOLATING LINES. Thus for all intents and purposes the output from the DVD Player is anamorphic whereas the original in letterboxed non-anamorphic video.

Author: bad_karma24
Time: 21-Aug-2004 4:28 PM
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Sorry, but it's not the same thing. I don't know how else to explain it.

Gentlemen, you can’t fight in here, this is the war room!

Author: ZombieFlanders
Time: 21-Aug-2004 5:27 PM
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DanielB, you're still not understanding what the review says, partially because it's worded really badly. Oh, and before I continue, I have personal experience with the Panasonic RP91, so I know what it can do. I'm also very familiar with scaling, interpolating, and resizing DVDs, usually using an HTPC.

When he says "It automatically scales 4:3, letterbox, anamorphic, and non-anamorphic movies to their correct aspect ratio," what he means is that it will detect whether or not the image being shown is within the aspect ratio--fullscreen (which should actually be referred to as 4:3 or 1.33:1) and widescreen (16:9 or 1.78:1)--set by the player. When it comes to letterboxed and/or non-anamorphic films in widescreen (they might be 16:9 Enhanced but missing the anamorphic "flag" command switch), the player zooms or resizes the image and uses a scaling algorithm to sharpen and clean the image. My HTPC does the same thing with a freeware program called FFdshow, but uses the much more powerful processing power of a computer and video card to do it a lot better. The important thing to remember here is that anamorphic transfers are not interpolating by adding lines. That is what scaling and resizing are for. There is no extra information in an anamorphic transfer outside of what is inside a 16:9 frame, it's the monitor using the full information from that frame.

As an example, let's use TR47's Collection. If I put the TR47s in the RP91 (or your friend's JVC, or my HTPC, etc.) set to output 16:9, the player notices that the image is non-anamorphic, however, it is letterboxed within the 16:9 frame. The RP91 (JVC, HTPC...) zoom (or resize in the case of the HTPC) the image to fill that 16:9 frame and get rid of the black bars outside of that frame*, run a sharpening and probably a noise reduction algorithm to enhance the image, and voila! A non-anamorphic, letterboxed DVD is presented in 16:9. If the monitor is 4:3 and isn't set to 16:9, it'll look exactly like an unsqueezed anamorphic image. However, it isn't the same as an anamorphic transfer, since it's adding information that wasn't there before, whereas the anamorphic disc (say from the Definitive Collection) retains all of the information because it's already set to fill the 16:9 frame. The players are fibbing, if you will, although that fibbing can make it look better than an anamorphic image from some Walmart POS player. That's why the RP91 (and it's brother the multi-disc RP82) was and is one of the most wanted DVD set-top boxes out there. Panasonic, cruel bastards that they are, woefully underestimated demand and for some reason stopped making them.

So, that's what's happening. Remember, no information is added in an anamorphic transfer! That's a misconception that, in this case has caused considerable and needless debate. And that is the end of that. If there are still any problems, feel free to PM me.

*Keep in mind that SW is ~2.35:1, so there are still bars on a 16:9 set.

Author: MeBeJedi
Time: 21-Aug-2004 6:21 PM
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[Tarkin] This bickering is pointless! [/Tarkin]

Let him believe what he wants. It's not like anyone is really affected by this technology anyways (except for ZombieFlanders, apparently.

)

So, can anyone tell me what is a good procedure for doing 2-3 pulldown frame by frame? Is there a program that can help find the correct sequence? I've tried loading my AVI into TMPGenc (I guess it works without the serial number) so that I can mess with the IVTC settings, but it keeps closing on me. I'd hate to have to do another capture for it.

BTW, does TPMGenc allow for cutting/pasting of the AVI (to remove side changes/swaps)? I've got Vegas chewing on the AVI to create an MPEG with 2-pass VBR with a max bitrate of 6,000 and an avergage of 4,000, just to see what size file I get. I'm at 20% completely after 16 hours. I've tried some short sequences with the IVTC settings in Vegas, but only when making the actual MPEG (I can read the Alpary AVI in Vegas, but I can't re-save it as such.) I get jerky scenes, and the combined frames aren't always correct.

I guess what I'm asking is, if I was anal enough about it, is it possible/worth it to convert to 24 FPS frame by frame? (Yes, all 200,000 of them

)

MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.

MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.

JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.

Author: Molly
Time: 21-Aug-2004 9:26 PM
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I do IVTC in Virtual Dub which is free (a hack, Virtual Dub Mod, can import VOB files).

Moll.

"Right now the coffees are doing their final work." (Airi, Masked Rider Den-o episode 1)

Author: DanielB
Time: 21-Aug-2004 10:28 PM
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Originally posted by: ZombieFlanders
As an example, let's use TR47's Collection. If I put the TR47s in the RP91 (or your friend's JVC, or my HTPC, etc.) set to output 16:9, the player notices that the image is non-anamorphic, however, it is letterboxed within the 16:9 frame. The RP91 (JVC, HTPC...) zoom (or resize in the case of the HTPC) the image to fill that 16:9 frame and get rid of the black bars outside of that frame*, run a sharpening and probably a noise reduction algorithm to enhance the image, and voila! A non-anamorphic, letterboxed DVD is presented in 16:9. Yes and that is exactly what I said, you have lines outputted where there were no lines before.

Originally posted by: ZombieFlanders
However, it isn't the same as an anamorphic transfer, since it's adding information that wasn't there before

You don't say. That what I said, it turns a non anamorphic picture into anamorphic by interpolating the lines (I never said it did a *good* job of interpolation, it may well just duplicate the line above or below rather then blend them - it doesn't matter). And I know it's fibbing and that's why I called it an abuse. But it'll yield much the same result as playing a Star Wars bootlegged DVD that was interpolated to "anamorphic" in the first place, yes? That was what my original argument was. In both cases you are adding information that's not there originally, in one case you're doing it to the source and therefore permanently corrupting it and in the other you're just doing it on-the-fly leaving the source happy being non-anamorphic.Originally posted by: ZombieFlanders
So, that's what's happening. Remember, no information is added in an anamorphic transfer!

Yes, I know that already. I realy don't know what the disagreement is.

Author: MeBeJedi
Time: 22-Aug-2004 12:35 AM
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//sigh

Drop it.

MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.

MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.

JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.

Author: Patrick R.
Time: 22-Aug-2004 12:15 PM
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Originally posted by: KristhemoviemanAND BEFORE I FORGET I GOT A SWEET ASS 35MM DRUM LAST MONTH WITH ALL YESSSSSSSSSSS ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL OF THE DELETED FOOTAGE FROM ALL 3 FILMS AND SOME OUTTAKESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

NEW PROJECT FOR 2005

using fox master tape ect this stuff is going to kickass i got a chance to review a feed last month when we picked up this little monster and the video looks GREAT!!!!! COLORS AND CONTRAST ARE ATLEAST 2 STEEPS BETTER than the lds

ON A SCALE OF 1-10
VHS -6
VCD-6
LD-7.5
FOX MASTER MONSTER TAPE-8.5 HEHHEHEHE

Hi Kris,

I was curious about this. So, you have a 35mm print? Is that on the master tape or are they two separate things? If you are transferring the 35mm print, are you doing it with a film scanner? I ask because that would be the true way to make an amamorphic print without quality loss.

I would be very interested to see how this comes out.

Patrick

"When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk." - Tuco from The Good, The Bad And The Ugly

Author: MeBeJedi
Time: 22-Aug-2004 12:23 PM
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Just thought I'd mention: I went back and got captures of all 3 sides of the Faces set with 0 dropped frames.

I'm working on IVTC right now (specifically in VirtualDub), and any comments, suggestions or assistance would be appreciated.

MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.

MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.

JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.

Author: wadetv
Time: 22-Aug-2004 3:20 PM
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I have heard alot about people saying to stick with the PCM audio when making the DVDs. However, I think it would be best simply to grab the 5.1 audio off the upcoming official DVD release and then take out any sound that was different from the original and mix it with a 5.1 track off the LD. I figure that 95% of the sound on the DVD will not be diffferent from the original release and it will sound better than the LD audio (plus the theatrical release was in surround sound I believe so it will be staying true to the original).

Author: Hal 9000
Time: 22-Aug-2004 3:23 PM
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If you're going to do that, you might as well do the video like that as well.

Eh?

My stance on revising fan edits.