CP3S, if your point is a philosophical one about the inconsistency of calling it murder but allowing exceptions, you're right. But if there's one thing I've learned, Warbler doesn't care about philosophical distinctions. No offense, Warbler, I think you'd agree the philosophical side of things doesn't hold much relevance to your thinking. You care what happens in practice.

From the philosophical standpoint, I think a lot of what you say is accurate and there are probably many people who hold that sort of incoherent view and are in essence drawing a different line of convenience. Setting aside the position's loss of principled morality, there is still a question whether there is anything wrong with drawing a different line of convenience.

You're also right most of us see a difference between killing an infant and killing a fetus. Pregnancy is unique. I don't think there are easy answers. That does lead some to throw their hands up and say it is best left to the woman.

What prevents many from giving up is the continued belief that the fetus is a human life (and factually, it is). I think you give a good review of the thinking of both sides, but the compassion of the pro-choice side runs in a single direction, where certain conveniences can only be justified by ignoring that the fetus has any moral value. Otherwise it's like Biden's statement: "Life begins at conception...and I just refuse to impose that on others."

ender is right that it's a false dichotomy to say it's murder or nothing. And I also thought he argued his point effectively (and non-boringly).