Warbler said:
walkingdork said:
So you believe that it's murder....but murder that is suddenly okay if rape is involved? How in your mind does rape/incest trump the rights that unborn babies apparently have?
it doesn't. I don't what to say about rape/incest. I've never been able to decide that. Kill an innocent unborn child(that I believe has the same rights as you or I), or force a raped women against her will to carry the child of the rapist in for 9 months and go through labor. and then who knows what regarding custody. a horrible situation. I really don't have an answer here.
Dork totally has you on this one, I'm afraid. If you say abortion is the murder of an innocent unborn baby, and you justify abortion in the instance of rape, then essentially, what you are saying by your own standards is that it is okay to murder an innocent unborn human baby if its conception was caused by rape.
Two wrongs don't make a right. You have three entities involved, the rapist, the victim, and the unborn child who was not responsible for any of this and is completely innocent. His hands are completely clean.
If you really think that an unborn child has rights, then why should those rights be revoked in the instance of a rape this child had no blame in?
You don't have an answer to that, as you already admitted. I do though: It is a matter of convenience. Exactly the same as it is for pro-choicers. Only the line is drawn differently, but clearly, neither of us think the life of that unborn baby is really equal to that of a true person, or that he should have the same rights as the rest of us. I think the pro-choice side, at least, is more honest about it. Our sides matter of convenience is drawn at, "I really don't want to be pregnant right now because [insert one of any number of reasons here]." While yours is drawn at "Oh my god, rape is such a horrific thing! Can you imagine having to carry a reminder of that horrible crime inside you for 9 months, then having to give birth to it followed by suffering the turmoil of either raising the child of your rapist, or giving it up for adoption, then regardless of the choice made, still suffering the permanent alterations made to your body by pregnancy as well as all the psychological trauma suffered throughout?"
It is convenient to allow the murder of that child. To force a woman through all that is beyond cruel, it is almost more horrible and unjust than the rape itself was. So, we make allowances for the sake of convenience. We can make this allowance because, no matter how hard we try to convince ourselves and others, we know it isn't a real kid being mowed down. It isn't the same as picking a baby up out of a bassinet and poisoning it or snapping its neck. The vast majority of pro-life people realize this, and are compassionate enough that they are not willing to extend their desire to force morality and dictate what someone can and can't do with their own bodies to the degree of forcing a rape victim to carry her child to term. Or, to force a mother to risk her life for the sake of her unborn baby.
Pro-choice extents that compassion further to include the teenage mother whose future and potential is going to be extremely limited by having a baby, or to the child who is going to be born into a poverty level household already filled with plenty of kids who will never contribute to society and suffer lives filled with crime and violence; and to every situation in between.