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msycamore said:
msycamore said:
So we might perhaps start to refer to these versions as the Stereo and Mono versions.
Actually, on a second thought it's probably better to refer to this as an opening day vs. wider release variation, sort of like what happened with Empire that had modifications seen a month into its run when it was time for the 35mm versions. As Dolby Stereo prints have these modifications as well, it only gets confusing. ;)
The most likely scenario on the info we have is:
May '77 - Dolby Stereo prints - containing the rare credit roll and cloudy composite, possibly an early more unstable composite of the opening crawl.
June '77 - Wide release with a third Academy Mono mix for a large number of prints, with the above shortcomings corrected from then on.
That sounds plausible. Some comments:
-The IB Tech prints don't have the "shaky" crawl Mike V was talking about. For the 1981 re-release, Fox's UK division took the IB prints in their inventory and spliced on the Episode IV crawl in Eastmancolor. All of the known surviving IB prints have this alteration, so we don't know which opening crawl they originally had. (The fact that the film was released in the UK in December 1977, so it makes sense that it's the "revised version.")
-If the IP used for the 80s video masters was from an older source (see: lack of burn marks, lack of Greedo subs, "cloudy" composite), why does it have the revised credits? Were they spliced in at some point? (I'm guessing the cut point would have been at the final group shot...)
-What happened to the burn-mark free, subtitle-free IP with the "cloudy" takeoff composite? I can think of three possibilities: 1.) It was either too faded or too damaged to use again in '93; 2.) It was misplaced; or 3.) It was sent to Japan to make the JSC telecine, and was never returned.
(I'm not implying that it was stolen, simply that Fox Japan could have misplaced it or forgotten to send it back. That also doesn't mean it would still be there now; Fox/Lucasfilm could have recovered it during the element search for the SE restoration. And I myself admit that the Japan theory is the least likely one. I don't even know if the JSC transfer was done *in* Japan, I'm just guessing based on the fact that Fox had to use the hardsubbed Japanese masters for the American widescreen LDs.)
-Your theory may provide a clue to the origin of the Technidisc/GOUT source. It was assumed to be the "first-generation" IP, and was found in "a special vault having only opticals" after a "massive search" for a subtitle-free IP. If it's a chronologically earlier source, why did it have the cloudless composite, and why did have the burn marks that were missing from the IP used for the earlier transfers (which was ALSO subtitle-free)? And why was it found in a vault intended for storing opticals? I'm beginning to wonder if it was actually an element used to make the export versions...
-Does anybody here have the old, pre-THX French/German widescreen LDs? They seemingly used a different film source than the JSC master, because while they also have the Greedo scene without the English subs, that one scene is cut in from a clearly inferior print. This suggests that their main source had the burned-in subs, and may not be the same as the JSC, in which case the takeoff composite may be different.
-russs15, could you maybe provide screenshots of this scene from the ITV broadcast? That version seems to be a film-chain from a flat, cropped Academy print (like the ones that used to show up on eBay from time to time). It has the EpIV crawl and lacks the Tantive burn marks, but it has the 1977 flyover instead of the recomposite. Perhaps the Yavin takeoff shot is different there too?